[AlexB138]

Most companies use the term "discretionary PTO". That means that there is no set limit on PTO. The positive take on it is that this means employees can take time off within reason so long as they're getting their work done. The negative take is that it means you have no guaranteed days you can take, and cultural or managerial pressure will prevent you from taking even a normal amount of vacation.

It also means that employees don't accrue PTO days, and therefore don't have to be paid out for that time when they're fired.

[tavavex]

Does this unlimited PTO still have to adhere to any legally required minimum PTO limits? If not, what prevents them from just not giving their employees any time off ever and bypassing the peer pressure part entirely?

[jandrewrogers]

PTO regulations are created by the individual States. None require PTO to exist. They do regulate accrual of PTO if it exists, sometimes with unintended consequences for employees.

The origin story is that "discretionary PTO" was created to enable people to take longer vacations than was feasible within the regulatory constraints of accrual-based PTO. It can be abused in other ways but the intent of the people that invented it were employee-friendly.

[compiler-guy]

It does not. Nothing.

[yladiz]

Maybe in the US, but in countries with minimum holiday time you get the minimum in your contract (or a bit more) and the employee handbook says you have unlimited. Companies can’t shirk their responsibility here legally by saying they give unlimited vacation.

[compiler-guy]

"Contracted minimum with more at manager's discretion" isn't what people usually mean when they talk about unlimited pto.

[yladiz]

Sure, my point is that the way it works in the US does not work in many other places.

[compiler-guy]

Right. Places without unlimited PTO get neither the upsides nor the downsides of unlimited PTO.

[compiler-guy]

The shift from the tem "Unlimited PTO" to "Discretionary PTO" has happened because early proponents realized it wasn't really unlimited, and they didn't want workers to think that way. But the "unlimited" term is still used to sell it, and still often appears in informal recruiting conversations.

It's just so slimy.

[AlexB138]

Yeah, the current reality of it isn't great at a lot of companies. I've been places where it was done well though. For instance, having a mandatory minimum number of days of vacation helps combat pressure to not take time off, and leaders who openly encourage people to take their time helps combat a culture of not taking time.

It started as a positive thing, intending to trust the employees and give flexibility. Unfortunately, like a lot of things, sleazy leaders turn flexibility into manipulation.

[ryandrake]

Reminds me of "Unlimited data" plans from ISPs, which are actually limited, but they just don't want to tell you about them.

Anytime something is marketed as unlimited, it's not.

[musicale]

"Well it's not a deceptive trade practice because no rational person would take such a hyperbolic or outlandish claim literally - much like 'best ISP in the UNIVERSE!' or advertisements suggesting that beer will make you fit and attractive."