[themafia]

> Many involved genuinely believe these things are sentient

Many involved have a financial stake and therefore cannot be taken at face value.

> because they are creating sentient entities and promptly enslaving them.

They fail to be sentient in nearly every honest definition of the word.

[tazjin]

Neither you nor any of the other people making confident takes in either direction actually know. You're just guessing.

[cwillu]

More like repeating their firmly entrenched preconceptions. Their claims may (or may not) be right, but there's very little if any new evidence being provided by either camp.

[WarmWash]

The real uncomfortable thing is that because we cannot confidently know, the moral defacto position is to treat them like they are.

[themafia]

I know you "feel" pain because I can poke you and observe the result. If I do it enough there is permanent damage.

Show this same phenomenon exists in LLMs.

[WarmWash]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

[jasondclinton]

We did exactly that and published it last month right here: https://www.anthropic.com/research/emotion-concepts-function

[throw310822]

They are confidently hallucinating a factual statement. Which is funny when claiming that confident hallucinations are the proof of LLMs' lack of intelligence.

[themafia]

One side is making a positive assertion. The other is making a negative assertion. One side can prove it's right. The other, logically, cannot.

One camp has to offer it's proof. If it has none then that _in and of itself_ is highly suggestive.

People have fully turned their minds off on this subject. It's disgusting.

[themafia]

No, you're just guessing, as you don't know a single thing about me, what I've researched, or what work I've done on this subject. Other than suggesting that I might be wrong, for what reasons one can only guess, you've actually offered nothing yourself.

In any case, what data, if any at all, did you use to arrive at this egotistical assertion?

[tazjin]

Your posts are very much like "I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this margin is too narrow to contain".

If a definitive answer on this topic was known then it, well, would be known.

[slashdave]

I understand what you are saying, but there are many true believers out there

[themafia]

An equal number of people believe horse urine cures certain diseases. If you sample the crowd you get nonsense back. This is why we invented science.