[dividefuel]

Beyond financial costs, I was caught off guard at how much time home ownership took up. House maintenance and projects have taken up most of every single weekend of mine for the past few years.

Part of it is simply that I bought a house with more space than the places I usually rented. More to clean, more to maintain, more things that can go wrong, etc.

But the biggest thing is that I'm the only one in charge of maintenance. There's no one person I can call for every single problem. Keeping track of regular maintenance, performing that maintenance, and learning how to DIY things takes a lot of time. And even if I want to pay someone to do it for me, I still have to research contractors, coordinate estimates, and schedule the project. And I still need to learn enough about the project to determine whether they're doing it right!

Home ownership is definitely a lifestyle choice first and foremost more than a financial one.

[asdff]

>But the biggest thing is that I'm the only one in charge of maintenance. There's no one person I can call for every single problem. Keeping track of regular maintenance, performing that maintenance, and learning how to DIY things takes a lot of time. And even if I want to pay someone to do it for me, I still have to research contractors, coordinate estimates, and schedule the project. And I still need to learn enough about the project to determine whether they're doing it right!

The thing is, you can actually find these people. My landlord has one. Sage old handiman who knows everything about how the building works and fixed half of it himself already. Seemingly he can do every trade. He's under the building doing plumbing or electric one day. Landscaping the next. Installing appliances. Paint and drywall. Roofing. Most of the time it's him by himself, but he will occasionally bring out his crew of similar sage old handimen who know seemingly everything there is to know.

You don't need a contractor. They will give you the runaround. You need to find a handiman like this. Not easy I'm sure, but they are out there.

[AnthonyMouse]

> Seemingly he can do every trade. He's under the building doing plumbing or electric one day. Landscaping the next.

Doing this is basically illegal in modern day. The requirements to get even one trade license, much less more than one, are set up to make it uneconomical unless that trade is your full-time profession. Who can justify doing a multi-year full-time apprenticeship in each trade when they expect to spend 85% of their time mowing lawns and painting decks and other things that aren't that trade?

There are still people who do it, of course, but then you're stymied by their inability to lawfully advertise their services.

[lostapathy]

The other trouble is that every handyman thinks they have a great handle on everything but have at least one blind spot where they do really, really stupid stuff.

[cucumber3732842]

More often it's just that the situation changes with time.

Like someone will work with existing shared neutral aluminum circuit spaghetti because that seemed right when the scope was narrow. Maybe they're just throwing an outlet on the opposite side of the wall for someone's CPAP machine. Maybe they're actively avoiding putting it on the bedroom circuit because of which window the A/C goes in. Then the scope grows, circumstances change and the specialized solution is no longer optimal.

Then the next owner shows up and has to troubleshoot something and between hindsight and the smug know-it-alls on /r/everytrade (seriously, the internet is great at driving off people with wisdom and experience) they pronounce the prior guy to have been an idiot.

[AnthonyMouse]

It seems like you misspelled "human" there.

A large number of people can't afford contractor rates, so the alternative to the handyman is doing the work themselves. Who is more likely to screw it up, the person who does it once a month but not every day, or the person who does it once in their whole life?

[lostapathy]

Honestly, I'd debate this.

The problem is the "handyperson" may "know" (but not actually) and do what they think they know. When I encounter the same task, I don't know I stop and try to learn the right way first. So there's a good chance the homeowner is actually on a better path.

A lot of the handypeople you hire, kinda by nature of being under-the-radar, also end up intentionally cutting corners where "it doesn't matter" because savings are a priority for their customers, and it can go too far. I, on the other hand, at least know I'm not trying to cheap out on my own work just because my last customers were broke and I'm conditioned to working in that mode.

[AnthonyMouse]

> The problem is the "handyperson" may "know" (but not actually) and do what they think they know. When I encounter the same task, I don't know I stop and try to learn the right way first. So there's a good chance the homeowner is actually on a better path.

Maybe that's true for diligent technical people, but they're not the majority. The average person is going to watch a YouTube video, run out of free time and wing it.

> A lot of the handypeople you hire, kinda by nature of being under-the-radar, also end up intentionally cutting corners where "it doesn't matter" because savings are a priority for their customers, and it can go too far.

This is just humans again. Plenty of people willing to skimp out on something, even when it's for themselves, when it means saving time or money. Especially the people short on time or money.

> I, on the other hand, at least know I'm not trying to cheap out on my own work just because my last customers were broke and I'm conditioned to working in that mode.

This is the argument for doing it yourself when you have the time and wherewithal to do it yourself. It's not an argument for pressuring people to do it themselves when they don't have the time and wherewithal by making the only other lawful alternative be the one they can't afford.

[rascul]

Licenses aren't always required in all areas. But there seem to be fewer of those areas than there used to be.

[bigstrat2003]

I'm sure it varies from location to location, but my handyman has said that the line here is modifying existing infrastructure versus installing new stuff. The former is fine without a license, the latter not. Thankfully, I've never yet needed him to do work that falls in the latter bucket.

[halostatue]

There's a fine line between large modifications to existing infrastructure and "new stuff". You need a handyman you can trust in order to know the difference.

It also depends on your insurance situation. If I'm doing renovations, my house insurance company will not honour my insurance if the work is being done by a contractor without knowing the insurance status of the contractor.

One thing to consider is whether there is a reasonably-priced "emergency contractor" service to which you can subscribe. Enercare in Toronto offers plumbing protection for $21/mo and electrical protection for $16/mo. Service calls — 24 hour service calls — are included and covered in the plan, and labour for fixing the problem is included. We've had multiple cases where we've needed to call a plumber out to look at issues and it would have cost ~$200 to get them in the door and more than $400 by time the work was done. We've also used them for discounted plumbing work (15% off labour and most parts) in the past when we didn't have a different contractor for something we needed done.

[xphos]

Honestly the most shocking think i learned when moving to Massachusetts was that only licenced trade people can request to have work done inspected. This was insane to me. Why would towns not want amature work not to be inspected. It wasn't illegal for a homeowner with poor experience to electrical, gas, HVAC, without a inspection... It was wild, I understand know its like this because its basically impossible to get certified in trades without it being your full time job and scares people from doing stuff on their own. But I think its also really damaging to society because people who don't know what they are doing will still do things and it shows in houses in Massachusetts which have incorrect wiring, bad plumbing, unlevel floors. Its because we overly protect the trade from handyman.

[duskdozer]

Oh, wow. So if you buy a house and find some sketchy looking work later on, would you have to find a pro to even call in an inspection, and would they even do that without getting some commitment to fix it if something's wrong?

[bombcar]

If you treat your house like a rental that you rent to yourself, you can avoid a bunch of headaches - mainly because you’ve given yourself “permission” to spend on it.

[natebc]

wait ... There are landlords out there who will "spend on it"?

Mine took 3 weeks to replace a broken HVAC when it was 35 degress out. 5 days to fix a toilet that when flushed dumped sewage into my downstairs neighbors ceiling.

Maybe if you're treating yourself as a tenant but your run of the mill rent extracting (or worse, middle man) landlord is the cheapest creature on the land.

[bombcar]

There are, but they're often found in places where the rent pressure isn't so great (e.g., there are many options for renters). When demand is so high or prices are fixed, everything else goes out the window; because what are you going to do, move?

[harperlee]

Don't know about your landlord specifically, and I'm no landlord, but there's also a bunch of people (including homeowners) that will wait until summer starts to test and then complain about HVAC... just on peak season for HVAC maintenance, where the waiting times are long (and the price will probably be higher).

[apothegm]

Owner-occupiers in 2-6 unit buildings (who don’t have RE empires beyond that). The incentives are wildly different.

[rascul]

There are good landlords. Unfortunately many of them aren't and there's not really a good way to know before.

[taneq]

Yeah but then I have to deal with my tenant. :P

[bombcar]

Evicting yourself and taking yourself to court could have fun Fogerty vs Fogerty vibes!

[taneq]

You jest, but a couple of years ago I added myself to my company’s workers compensation insurance in case I get injured. If I ever do I’ll have to put in a claim against myself and hope my insurance covers it. :P

[Suppafly]

>If you treat your house like a rental that you rent to yourself, you can avoid a bunch of headaches

Or you do a bunch of shitty halfass 'landlord fixes'

[brudgers]

My landlord has one.

That is a B2B relationship, not a B2C one.

The old handyman probably might not need new customers and even if they do, they probably don’t want random homeowners because the inexperienced tend to have unrealistic expectations and only own one property,

[jdbernard]

To provide a counterexample, my parents always had a handyman growing up. I think they still do. Not the same guy through all the years, but they've always managed to find one.

[groby_b]

> He's under the building doing plumbing or electric one day.

I believe I've encountered that guys electrical work, and it ain't sage :)

(I.e. there are a few of those "fix it all" guys, but they're not always code compliant. They do get stuff done, though)

[mc3301]

Plumbing: plumber. Electrics: electrician.

Most other things (besides obvious big things like foundation, drainage, roofing, load supporting areas) can be done with a good "fix it all" kinda person, or (with patience) youtube.

[laughing_man]

Plumbing isn't all that complicated, really. There are things you have to understand, but a little research will take you a long way.

I only call the plumber when I don't have the equipment I'd need, like cameras and snakes.

[obloid]

If you're comfortable doing DIY a lot of equipment can be rented at your local Home Depot or similar store. I had a clogged sewer line and rented a drain snake for the afternoon. Much cheaper than calling the plumber.

The thing I won't do is roof work. Too scary.

[cucumber3732842]

>The thing I won't do is roof work. Too scary.

And that's why you're still allowed to DIY it.

If schlepping packs of shingles onto a 150deg roof was as easy as pulling wire or laying pipe (heh) they'd have trade groups and lobbyists convincing the government to keep you from doing it yourself just like the lower altitude trades do.

[laughing_man]

I stay off the roof too. That's for younger and more nimble guys.

I had a boss who was up on his roof installing an antenna when he slipped and fell off. It was a scene from a 1920s comedy -- his wife was looking out the window and saw her husband's falling body flash by.

Only it's not funny IRL. His liver was punctured, he lost his spleen, and his back was never right again.

[Gigachad]

In many countries you are legally required to use a licensed plumber and electrician.

[bradleyjg]

> Not easy I'm sure,

Can confirm it’s not easy. If you want to describe a method of finding one, I’m all ears.

[aidenn0]

Ask your realtor for references.

[panzagl]

Or your office/building manager at work.

[LoganDark]

Why would you ask a realtor?

[BuyMyBitcoins]

Realtors tend to have a lot of contacts. The realtor I worked with knew “a great guy” for every aspect of the house (roof, plumbing, cabinets, driveways, etc.) due to the fact that she naturally encountered so many of these tradespeople.

She would get recommendations from sellers. Either the seller recently had work done in order to improve the home before putting it on the market, or, the seller had some trusted expert they used for years.

My realtor actually encouraged me to ask her for any contacts if I needed something done in the future. I sense that her contacts like having customer referrals as well.

[koolba]

Realtors are also notorious for recommending service providers that give them a kick back.

[memcg]

Realtors often have a list of contractors they rely on to help potential sellers get their homes ready for sale. I have found and used recommended roofers, plumbers, HVAC and electricians from a local realtor that wants my future business.

[kxrm]

I would caution seeing a Realtor as an easy way to avoid doing your homework on someone. I did this long ago and the Realtor's recommendation was one of the worst I have ever worked with.

There is, unfortunately, no shortcut to finding quality handymen.

[aidenn0]

A good realtor will often not recommend the same contractors that they use for prepping a home for sale. The requirements for getting a home in saleable condition and getting a home in livable condition are not always the same.

Instead they act as an information hub for homeowners.

Obviously "good realtor" is doing a lot of work here, and I don't know how you find a good realtor (kind of lucked into mine after having a terrible one for my first purchase).

[m463]

I don't think home ownership is an "every single weekend" thing unless you bought a fixer-upper.

Honestly, it sounds like you enjoy it.

If you are doing it with that frequency I think you just are "into" your house.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> I don't think home ownership is an "every single weekend" thing unless you bought a fixer-upper.

It really isn't, and I don't know why so many homeowners act like it is.

I bought my house in 2015. It was built in 1983.

The only things I've had to do are a roof replacement, HVAC upgrade, and deal with a broken water main.

Sure, none of those were cheap, but that's 3 events in 11 years, and the first two I expect to not have to do again for at least 15 years, and the water main was a random one-off thing, and it didn't flood the house. It put a lot of water into my crawl space, but it didn't become a problem.

People who swear by renting will use it as evidence to show that owning is more expensive than renting, but I think they just ignore that those costs are factored into the rent, not to mention the fact that once I noticed my roof had a problem, I had people out the NEXT DAY to give quotes on replacing it. When I replaced the HVAC (Old A/C compressor was frequently tripping the breaker and was underpowered), I was able to choose to upgrade rather than dealing with a landlord who would install the cheapest thing they could find.

But ah...I've digressed.

The point was that home ownership isn't nearly the maintenance burden some owners seem to claim it is, and when there is a problem, being the one in charge of getting it solved, rather than having to harass a landlord into solving it, is nice.

[nostrademons]

The incentives change when you become a homeowner. You reap the benefit of any improvements you do to the property; you also know for sure when you're going to leave it, and you have the freedom to do whatever you want to do to it. Before, when you were renting, any improvements you did were throwaway time and money, benefitting the landlord and future tenants more than yourself.

Many homeowners respond to these incentives by doing more improvements.

This is also why many governments (both local and federal) subsidize homeownership. It incentivizes residents to improve their properties rather than let them rot, which has positive externalities for many of the surrounding properties.

[DamonHD]

> you also know for sure when you're going to leave it

Well, about that...

There is a thing called a Compulsory Purchase Order in the UK, with equivalent in the US for example.

Guess which freehold home owner with two thumbs can expect a CPO sometime in the next 10 years?

[bsammon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_purchase_order

The USA (and other countries?) equivalent appears to be "Eminent Domain": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

[csomar]

Are you saying that during the 11 years you never had an electrical issue, window/door breaking, a paint job, a clogged pipe, mold growing somewhere, a tree that needed handling, etc... You either have very high quality materials, don't care or were just lucky. Usually something (small/medium) breaks every 2-3 months or so and something (medium/big) breaks every 3-4 years or so. Depends on usage too (1 person is very different than a family of 5 where 3 are kids jumping around).

[Sohcahtoa82]

> electrical issue, window/door breaking, a paint job, a clogged pipe, mold growing somewhere, a tree that needed handling, etc

I did forget about two of those. I did need to get some trees handled a few years ago. Was about $3,000 to get like 5 trees (A couple over 150 feet) removed. And we did get the house repainted, but that wasn't completely necessary, but was a nice to have. Wasn't that expensive, surprisingly.

But have not had electrical issues (Unless you count installing an EV charger), broken door/window (Unless you count my dumb ass trying to walk through a screen door and tearing it up, but that's a $150 replacement from Home Depot I install myself in 5 minutes), no clogged pipes, no mold.

Even my water heater has been fine. No idea when this tankless heater was installed, but it's been 11 years and no leaks or problems.

I did have the garage door tension spring suddenly snap, but I'm fairly sure that was only $300 to get fixed.

Again though, if I was renting the cost of all this work would have been included in rent. Sure, renting makes living costs more stable, but in the long run, I'm not convinced there's a scenario where it comes out cheaper, even if you're investing the difference. Rents in my area have gone up 75-100% in the last 10 years. My mortgage stayed the same.

EDIT: I suppose if you're in an area where rents are significantly cheaper than mortgage payments, it may be cheaper to rent. But in my area, it's very close to 1:1. When I bought my house, it was $340K, minus a $20K down payment. $320K at 4% for 30 years was $1527/month. Plus property tax brought it to about $1,900/month. Meanwhile, the rental estimated value was $1,800/month.

[csomar]

Rent is determined by supply/demand. In the USA, rents are higher (than buy) because rental businesses are dominated by companies who can do the math. In many parts of the world, rental businesses are small/micro by someone/family who want to own property.

See this: https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/gmaps.jsp?indexTo...

So for many people around the world, it's more economical to rent. You are basically being subsidized by the people who are obsessed with the idea of owning a property.

[Panzer04]

Yep, this.

A unit (multi-dwelling property, not necessarily an apartment) might cost 650k here, but only rent for 500$/w. 25kpa is a 4% return on that principle, before expenses (property management, maintenance, rates/taxes etc).

The only context in which it makes sense is if capital gains/land value goes up, which it has historically but that's no guarantee.

Houses make all these numbers even worse - higher upfront expense (land value) and lower rental yield (they rent for more, but tenants prefer a better house/dwelling more than they care about a back yard, so cost goes up more than rent does)

[colechristensen]

More to the point, some people just want to be constantly changing/improving things and a subset of those folks need to acknowledge that this is a choice not necessity.

[eikenberry]

Most homes are fixer-uppers. They graduate to that after just a couple decades. I owned 2 homes, both in the 20-30 year range in 2 different cities.. combined (sometimes both) they needed... new roof, new hot water heater, kitchen and bathrooms updates and water mitigation, pest damage and control, leaky pipe fixing, wood deck replacing, furnace and AC replacements, basement flooding issues, foundation issues, probably more I can't remember.

Home ownership sucks and after selling my previous home I'm so glad to be renting. Just never having to deal with another contractor makes me so happy. :)

[Gigachad]

Apartments are the middle ground. I bought one about 4 years ago and haven’t had to do anything. Any issues like water heaters and such get handled by the building management. Eventually I’ll have to repaint and repair the internals but it’s been good so far.

[hansvm]

You can tell when a home was built like that though. Why did you purchase it regardless? Why did you do it again after your first experience?

[eikenberry]

If professional inspectors cannot tell what makes you think you can? Our first home was inspected by a bank inspector + my wife's father who works in construction and everyone found it OK. We had the second home inspected by 2 separate inspectors and both OK'd the house with only minor issues.

All our friends have equally terrible stories. Maybe you just got lucky or haven't owned a home yet?

[hansvm]

Most "professionals" in most professions are mediocre, and even when they have potential their incentives are rarely aligned with yours. Bank inspectors don't care about the same things you do, and construction workers don't necessarily have skills which are directly transferable to inspection, at least not without training and practice.

Saying that out loud, yes, inspection is a skill like any other, and it's a bit simplistic for me to say that "obviously that house is good/bad," at least as an intervention I'm recommending to randos I don't know.

But...if I've just gotten lucky then I should buy some lottery tickets. I'm never wrong when I point out the places a house is going to fail or the places where it's going to succeed. My background is a bit off the beaten path (lots of construction, handyman activities, bank demolitions, out-at-sea yacht repair/captaining/maintenance/emergences, electrical installations, whatever -- at least until I finally settled down into a more stable tech career); maybe that helps, or maybe I have some loose wires upstairs. Whatever the case, I don't think it's hard to avoid a bad house if you take the time and care to properly inspect it (and it might take a lot of time, including some disassembly -- big red flag if you can't peek into the internals, and I wouldn't make a multiple hundred thousand dollar investment if you aren't allowed to check on the details).

[mbesto]

Hi - homeowner here who is NOT in an fixer-upper. "every single weekend" is clearly hyperbole however here is regular maintenance for me:

- once a quarter clean the pollen off the A/Cs

- once a week clean the pool (okay I pay someone but still its part of maintenance)

- inevitably something on the pool goes wrong

- once a week clean my grill

- Blow leaves (seasonal) off porch

- pull weeds

- power wash the deck

And then most homeowners, no matter how new your house is, inevitably find an endless amount of "projects" to improve their home experience. Wife wants a table for the grill made, I add automated sprinklers, we put new planters for a garden in our backyard...the list goes on..

[marcus_holmes]

I'm confused - so are you working on your house every single weekend, or not?

Because that list clearly says "once a week" for one item and has a ton of stuff on it that looks pretty regular, like if you're not doing it every weekend then it'll mount up to be a real problem that takes you all weekend.

[defrost]

Different homeowner - most of the high frequency stuff there is quick and easy to do regularly with practice and it slots in pretty well with just living.

It's more in order with keeping yourself, your dishes, your clothes clean and exercising.

Slightly physical stuff (eg: hedging - waving a weighted object about from ground level to above head level for 20 to 30 feet say) is desirable to some - cheaper than gym work, keeps the body moving, fits in well between at desk sessions and a good time for thinking while you flex.

[marcus_holmes]

I get that, and agree. It's just the whole "every weekend is overblown" and then listing stuff that you need to do every weekend thing that didn't make sense.

All weekend every weekend I'd agree is probably overblown, unless you enjoy it as a hobby. Or as you say, an alternative to the gym.

[rconti]

Yardwork and cleaning can easily take up hours per week. That's why we outsource it. When I was a kid, it felt like all my dad ever did on the weekend was yardwork, fix cars, and drive me to sports practice.

[asdff]

Depends where you live. In the midwest you might legitimately need to mow 3x a week and you might have a huge lot. If you say screw it and let it go to knee high weeds, city might show up and cut your grass and fine you for it.

[ball_of_lint]

3x/week is wild. I'd get a different type of grass at that point.

[asdff]

Just what happens with the rain load during the peak growing season. Later in the summer it will switch to a more drought condition though and there won't be so frequent mowing. But the peak parts, yeah, not much I don't think you can do via strain selection given the quantities of rainfall.

[halostatue]

Fescue grasses mostly flop over rather than stand tall.

Most lawns in North America are Kentucky Blue or ryegrass which are what produce the eyesore.

But lawns in general are a pestilence.

[asdff]

Go ahead and try and mow that after its flopped over. Mower is going to choke with how much grass you are putting into it. You may need to weed wack it down and rake or blow it out before you can mow.

[anjel]

Verdant lawn pride is a scam. An avoidable waste of time, water and maintenance dollars that seduces even desert dwellers

[whaleofatw2022]

The weeds are the hard part.

But as far as when I owned my own home, cutting the grass was just part of my routine and at least guaranteed some physical activity instead of working all day during covid.

[bombcar]

“Mow & snow” will eat most of your life, if you let it.

[gilbetron]

I live in the midwest and there never has been a time where any lawn I owned, nor was owned by anyone that I know, needed mowing 3x a week. You might like to do it to keep a perfectly manicured lawn, but it definitely isn't needed.

[asdff]

How much rainfall you get in the summer months? That is probably why. I do not kid with the 3x a week. If you don't keep up the grass gets too long and chokes the mower.

[password4321]

Apparently robotic lawnmowers work pretty well these days, though it sounds like only one might not keep up if the lawn needs regular mowing that often.

[asdff]

You can never fully automate lawn work because a big time sink is actually stick pickup ahead of the mowing. Also, every property is loaded with edge cases.

[password4321]

This is true! But apparently the whatever percent that can be automated has crossed the line and become "worth it" for some.

It's also worth noting that owners have changed their behavior to favor their robot vacuums, though I have not read any similar examples for robot lawnmowers yet.

[Ntrails]

Buy a house without grass :)

[raydev]

How would you keep it from filling up with weeds in any reasonably grass-friendly climate?

I just pay someone $50/week to mow my lawn and I pay zero attention to it. If we have a mini-drought and the grass turns brown, oh well.

[grantith]

Kill your lawn and let the native plants take over.

[raydev]

I'd rather not get a bunch of ticks while walking to my door.

[satiric]

If you kill the lawn, won't the invasive plants take over?

[asdff]

Actually illegal in a lot of the midwest I'm not even kidding.

[onecommentman]

And having a grass lawn is actually quite expensive (water) and borderline illegal/immoral (water) in the American Southwest. Having a grass lawn is only mandatory in a few gated communities with out-of-touch HOAs. We’ve gotten used to the xeriscaped look…blends well with the brown stucco/adobe exteriors. When you don’t have much green, it becomes a (cheap) accent color (e.g. shrubs, evergreen trees) rather an expensive-to-maintain background color (e.g. lawns).

[Suppafly]

Nah, I live in the midwest, even people that have lawn services have them come weekly or even every 10 days.

[asdff]

That would be fine in late summer but in growing season chances are you aren't noticing the increased mowing frequency. Most of it happens when you are probably working 9-5 after all.

[Suppafly]

I work from home, I'm well aware of when my neighbors get their lawns mowed, and mine perpetually looks unmowed since I mow on the weekends and they have lawn services that come on weekdays.

[dwd]

It depends. If you own a single block dwelling and have a yard with trees, plants, lawns or a pool there are always things to do.

$500/year for the garden is very conservative, even when you're doing all the labour.

It would be more like $500/month were you to get a gardener in. If you need an arborist (for example cutting back tall trees close to power lines or encroaching on neighbours) it gets expensive very fast.

A pool also costs at least $500/year just in chemicals.

[headroom]

This is my experience as well. Maintenance of the house and the property is a huge time sink, but the worst offender is the distance to everything and how you need a car. Driving around constantly in suburbia is absolutely maddening. Oh and the car needs maintenance too. Changing tires, service appointments, keeping it clean, shovelling snow so you can get to the store.

We sold the house and moved to an apartment in the city last year. Now I have time to hang out with my family, we have all these restaurants and things to do everywhere. Got rid of the car and I bike to work.

My maintenance now is pretty much:

- Mow collectively owned lawn once per summer

- Spring and autumn cleaning of collectively owned spaces. One or two chores. Last autumn I cleaned a carpet. This spring I cleaned two bathrooms and checked the fire alarm batteries. Then each time we had a barbecue after the chores.

- Service bicycles when needed

- Make sure food isn't rotting in the fridge

Oh and I have time for hobbies too. My kids have way more friends now (playgrounds are really spread out in the suburbs and they are mostly empty) and the area we moved to is a lot calmer than in the suburbs where teenagers would roam around and be loud because there was nothing else to do.

We might get something like a summer home to be close to nature when it's nice to be (currently we rent a cabin for a few weeks in the summer) but just everyday living is so much better in an urban environment.

For context we live in Europe.

[darknavi]

> House maintenance and projects have taken up most of every single weekend of mine for the past few years.

Mine come and go but it's no where near every weekend since I've purchased in 2019. What sort of things occupy this much time?

[atoav]

Houses are very different. I grew up in a guest house (so: three floors, a cellar, 14 flats/rooms) that has various layers from various ages. The foundations are hundreds of years old, most of the rest 50s, 60s, 70s, 90s.

If you're living in a new house you may have peace for a few decades, but at the cost of everything piling up the longer you wait. Exchanging corroded drain pipes someone thought was a good idea to bury in concrete is especially fun. At some time door hinges break, window mechanisms break. Water pipes clog, electrical is outdated (e.g. landlines are out, ethernet or fiber is in). The intercom breaks, wasp nests are under every second roof tile, there is a water intrusion in the cellar, a storm knocks down the fence, the washing machine breaks, the garage door motor dies, the asphalt on the runway cracks and needs a tar pour, the attic needs to be insulated, a portion of the roof needs to be retiled, the wooden parts of the facade need to be repainted, a drainage needs to be dig to avoid water piling up into a garage, a doorway has to be added to a repurposed storage space.

And mind, I was the son of the house, this is only some of the stuff I worked on before I moved out with 18.

There was constantly something to be done. What and how much is mostly a function of (1) the age and build quality of the house and (2) your own standards when it comes to maintenance.

[steveBK123]

I think it's a U shaped curve probably... lots of stuff breaks initially due to mistakes/defects, and then 10/20/30 years out. The sweet spot is moving into home renovated 5-10 years ago.

I've lived in a new construction condo as well as a 1970s home that had renovations in 1990s and 2010s.

New construction you deal with a lot of defects that show themselves in the first few years. You also contend with modern construction just being lower quality materials in a lot of cases unless you do a high end build for yourself. So the floors, cabinets, etc are going to wear out much faster.

My 50 year old house of course had a ton of deferred maintenance from previous owner that resulted in break-fix work on plumbing, heating, cooling, siding, roofing, etc.

I type this as I have 2 faucets, a fence, some driveway potholes and paver stones to mend, an irrigation head to replace and a new central air unit coming in next week. Dishwasher was replaced 2 months ago.

[sethammons]

Not op, for for me: I have a 4" hole in my cedar siding that I have to craft a custom replacement board for due to a woodpecker. I have a leak in _two_ bathroom shower fixtures that drip into the basement. The first, I started fixing and realized the copper pipe needs to be re-routed. The second, I just turned off the water; I'll get to it later. I have two retaining walls with water routing issues. I need to figure out a mega-gutter or I need to otherwise route a lot of water coming off my roof. I have a broken window that needs replacement. I had to board it up for now because I can't get ANYONE to come out in the middle of Montana. I will be learning how to replace a window in log siding sometime this summer. My water heaters are on the fritz and might be to blame for tripling my propane usage this winter. I need to fix those. My pool pump needed servicing, so I tore that apart and fixed it. My chainsaw needed servicing, so I tore that apart and fixed that. My riding lawnmower hit a rock and broke the spindle so I had to tear that apart and replace that. I still need to get out and clean my gutters. And do trimming in the yard. Oh, and I had a couple of pine trees come down over winter, so when my saw is back up and running, I'll go cut up some of those. And an apple tree died; need to cut that up and plant a new tree. And I have some boat maintenance to do, my oil gauge stopped responding this season so I'll tear that apart maybe this weekend. I have an outbuilding that seems to be leaning. I need to hook up a plumb-bob and make some measurements and monitor. More yard work. More maintenance. I'd like to job most of it out and just do the fun stuff if I could actually get anyone to come out.

[anonymars]

Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UZFI-8D5uA - 40sec ("What does it look like I'm doing?!)

[sethammons]

haha, yes. I love this clip

[Aurornis]

I'm a heavy DIY person who does almost everything myself and I'm also confused about the comment above.

The only periods where housework took up every single weekend were during renovations, which can take extra time on an old house like mine.

Simply maintaining a house shouldn't take up every single weekend unless you have a humongous old house on an extremely large property.

[colordrops]

Not gp, but I bought a fixer-upper and it was at least weekends for the first two years, then slowed down quite a bit after that. Now it comes in fits and starts similar to you.

[pc86]

This is the answer - there are plenty of move-in ready, turn-key homes that require basically zero maintenance unless you want to remodel or change something, but those cost more (sometimes a lot more) than the ones that need more TLC or true fixer-uppers.

[hibikir]

Eventually the maintenance comes back again: The turn-key homes have typically had most of the things that needed maintenance replaced, but they eventually come back, and they can be quite the headache. See the wonders of having a plumbing stack going past its useful life, land resettling leading to having to do regrades, or lift concrete slabs, or just general tree maintenace.

[edoceo]

Don't do your own trees! Wood is very heavy! It wiggles a lot! Dragons!

[mindslight]

IMO the key to doing your own trees (or presumably having them done for less money) is having enough room around them that you can just drop them whole, rather than having to hire someone with a bucket truck and/or climbing spikes to disassemble them from the top down.

[asdff]

Even with fixer uppers the house is usually functional and fine. Just people think the bathroom is too ugly to poop in, so they have to spend five figures and rip out the walls, floor, ceiling, and everything else, to replace it with new walls, floor, ceiling, and everything else.

[laughing_man]

More like the bathroom is too ugly to poop in because there's a leak behind the shower and now there's mold growing on the wall.

[asdff]

That might be why some people renovate, but for most its because they think the color is wrong and they don't like the fixtures. Queue squandering money to achieve the same functionality and all the material waste throwing out the perfectly good fixtures and such and buying newly built fixtures and such.

[hawaiianbrah]

I bought a fixer upper a few years ago. It was a solid six month stretch of various projects of various sizes rushing to be done before my child was born. Since then it’s been very chill, though I did just spend about another six months renovating a bathroom down to the studs myself, but I took that upon myself for the thrill of it.

[dividefuel]

Coming back a few days later, but here's my current todo list:

- Lawn care

- Pool care

- Trim back trumpet vine in side yard

- Fix a leaking drip irrigation adapter

- Prune dead branches in liquid amber tree

- Repair / replace squeaky dryer parts

- Replace washing machine seal

- Trim back ivy near maple tree

- Cover sprinkler valves that are in the sun

- Replace dining room light bulb

- Trim trees off the fence

- Pull privet stalks

- Paint bare spots on front patio

Most of these are probably 30-120 minutes of work.

[rmwaite]

Agree completely about the time thing. Indeed, every time I’ve fallen into the trap of somehow believing I’ve moved “past” the time sink it inevitably has bitten me down the road when something breaks or I learn about some maintenance task I should have been doing but didn’t even know existed.

More than anything, I’ve come to admire those who learn how to do this stuff consistently because it is hard.

[CrimsonCape]

Haha for example, to the homeowners out there, you should change your water heater anode rod ASAP if you have not. Good luck getting the rod out, because the caps on the water heater get corroded shut. And did I mention you need to drain the hot water heater to do so. You ever tried draining a hot water heater when that task has not been accounted for in the design? You need a way to drain it.

[shrubble]

The frustrating thing is, that for not much more spent at the time of construction, we could have nearly maintenance-free homes for 80 years or more.

Like, why use wood in an climate like the American South, where there are multiple species of termites that like to eat wood?

I was a member at a maker space - the building has been around since the 40s or 50s and never damaged by a hurricane - why? The roof (with a rubber rolled roof on top) along with the rest of the building is made out of concrete.

[jandrewrogers]

It probably depends on where you are in the South and also cost sensitivity. If you are hugging the Gulf Coast then you do see a fair amount of cinder block in new builds, at least in wealthier parts.

As you move north, you enter either the South Carolina or New Madrid seismic hazard zones. Building codes require reinforcing new masonry construction to modern US seismic standards which adds significant expense. Older masonry construction that pre-dates the current seismic standards are typically grandfathered in but you might not want to be inside it during one of the infrequent strong earthquakes.

The US uses wood because it is abundant and cheap. But people also forget that most of the US is subject to strong earthquakes, so the alternative to wood is massive amounts of steel which is expensive. The original masonry construction in the US was mostly destroyed by earthquakes.

Where I live a new house is required to survive a M8.5 earthquake without material structural damage. If you avoid the use of wood in construction, the amount of steel required to meet that standard tends to be cost prohibitive. Steel construction also requires much more expensive labor in addition to the material costs.

[BobbyTables2]

I’ve always wondered why the South uses black asphalt shingles. Aside from being the worst possible color, they like neither the hot summers, the hailstorms, nor the hurricanes.

The level of stupidity exceeds California homes using sun-baked wood shingles that can be torched off from the suggestion of a single spark.

[xnx]

Job security for roofers. Individual home buyers are too dumb to understand or too busy too think about tco.

There's a reason you don't see shingles on commercial buildings.

[xnx]

Exactly. I daydream about building a simple house to commercial standards that is optimized for low total cost of ownership and easy cleaning.

[kamaal]

>>Home ownership is definitely a lifestyle choice first and foremost more than a financial one.

Same could be said about Real estate investments.

I know people who look up real estate investors as an inspiration as something they want to do themselves. One day trip scouting for properties, is enough to make them quit when they realise most of it is lots of irritating driving, due diligence, legal work, loans etc.

Hard things have little competition for a reason, process is a high attrition journey.

[abalashov]

Indeed. This is why I'm a preferential life-long renter, although I think the primary reason is that I can't stand living anywhere for more than 2-5 years. So much friction to move, unwinding this risky position very expensively, with loads of transaction fees stacked--I can't understand the appeal. Even owning a condo was enough for me to realise I don't want to own my own bare metal, and that I look at housing as a cloud service of sorts, where much of what I pay for is just for all operational questions to be someone else's problem and to relieve myself of the burden of owning and liquidating what I would otherwise have to CAPEX.

For me, it's hard to put a price on the reclamation of _time_ spent otherwise thinking about those issues, to say nothing of the money. I just don't have time to think about even 1/60th of what's involved in getting vendor quotes for roof reshingling or painting or whatever, and even if I do have the time, I'd rather pull my fingernails out than spend it that way.

I sure do miss that mortgage interest deduction, though. I had no desire to accrue equity in the property--and indeed, if I had more equity, I would have lost even more money than I did in the 2008 crash--but I loved my super high-interest loan. It meant that my most of my housing payment was tax-deductible, and that's fantastic. My only regret, besides buying itself, is that I didn't take out an interest-only mortgage.

However, this isn't a Great Recession sob story. The condo would be way too much work and cognitive bandwidth theft even in the best of times, and that's like a tenth of the structural, landscaping, etc. issues one has to think about with an SFH. No thanks, man. I have other stuff to do.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> I loved my super high-interest loan. It meant that my most of my housing payment was tax-deductible, and that's fantastic.

Absolutely insane.

I guarantee that the tax deduction did not offset the extra interest you paid and that overall, it's a net loss for you.

The deduction reduces your taxable income, it does not reduce your tax directly. If you paid $30,000 in interest, it might reduce your tax by ~$10,000, so you're still down $20,000. Meanwhile, if you had half the interest rate, you might pay $15,000 in interest, reducing your tax by ~$5,000, so you're only down by $10,000.

And that doesn't even get into how the standard deduction works, which you can't take if you itemize so you can take the mortgage interest deduction.

I don't think there's a single scenario where choosing to spend more money than you otherwise would just for tax benefits results in a net positive.

[abalashov]

It's absolutely a net loss, but the $55k deficiency when I walked away was worse. However, I realise that this was an artifact of the recession.

Less flippantly: I look at it as a question of government distorting the housing market with tax policy, and whether to have a deductible housing payment or not. Any conceivable appreciation is perhaps a bonus, but I truly don't care.

Re: standard deduction -- it wasn't then what it is today, post-Trump tax cuts.

[greedo]

Moving every 2-5 years sounds like one of the rings of Hell from Dante.

[abalashov]

Moving is no fun at all (and also costs money! deposits, movers and the rest of it), but the only thing worse is staying in one place. I just can't do it.

I mean, of course I tell myself this is the last time we're ever moving, and that this is the forever spot. However, experience suggests this is never, ever the case, and there's no actual precedent for that.

[rjh29]

Staying in the same place for decades seems like hell to me too.

[abalashov]

It is my experience that people who see things that way and people who see things the opposite way truly inhabit incommensurable realities.

[bobanrocky]

Wow, moving every 2-5 years? I suppose it works with no kids, or spouse ..

[abalashov]

I have both and it's still doable, as long as your spouse is as into it as you are.

Mine isn't going to stay put for more than a few years either. We enable each other's moving fetish.

[donflamenco]

At least with me (married filing jointly), when Trump raised the standard deduction so high, the mortgage interest deduction doesn't come into play. It hasn't seemed to change my total tax liability, it just made my tax return easier to do. I haven't had to itemize for years now.

[abalashov]

It is true that the interest deduction is not nearly as valuable as it was in my ownership days (late 2000s/early 2010s). My total annual interest of those days wouldn't even meet the individual standard deduction now, and that was a 6.65%/8.25% 80/20 loan (30-year fixed) with essentially 99% financing, back when that was a thing.

However, my assumption, given the cumulative inflation since then, is that my payments would be twice as large today and easily clear the individual deduction, as long as it wasn't one of those lower-interest loans people like. I hate those.

[cm2012]

Once you get a good handyman, just need a good electrician and plumber

[bluesummers5651]

100%. We bought a house because we wanted to be able to adjust our home to our family and lifestyle and we both like futzing around with homeowner stuff like repairing things and having a big garden to grow stuff right outside our door. I don't envy the people who get into homeownership and learn that they actually hate being their own general contractor (or don't have the money to pay someone else to be their general contractor because they hate being one).

[goosejuice]

I've rented a studio all the way to a 5 bedroom house. The difference in maintenance/upkeep for me has mostly been the yard. There's also the fact that cities typically have more demands on landlords.. meaning renters foot the bill/time on more maintenance items more in some areas. I think that's often overlooked when weighing the costs.

I sadly don't get much benefit out of renting beyond freedom of movement and higher cash on hand in my current place. Sometimes I've lost my freedom to stay though.

I have a, perhaps irrational, fear of getting stuck with a house.

[wink]

> Home ownership is definitely a lifestyle choice first and foremost more than a financial one.

Kinda depends on the prices. Where I live you can be lucky to find anything resembling a living house for under 1m EUR. First you'd have to be able to do a calculation and say 'I can afford that', only then it makes sense to ask the lifestyle question.

FWIW, my parents had to spend the first 1-2 years renovating a lot in their house (in the 90s) but after that it wasn't really that much of ongoing stuff. Small garden helps a lot though.

[epolanski]

+1, my SO was so hard to "have our place", that we essentially dedicated two years of our lives to it (from finding the place, negotiating, legal stuff, renovations, etc).

It gave us two extremely stressful years, you're just not prepared for it.

And yes, we have way more things to think now than we used to.

It's going to financially pay off when I'll be close to 60 (I'm 38).

I'm not saying I wouldn't do it again, I like my house, but sure I'd be much wealthier (hell, I sold my investments in 2021 to buy it) and care free.

[hawaiianbrah]

> There's no one person I can call for every single problem.

There absolutely can be if you want to pay for the service. Look up home concierge / residential management services, like Para Home Services.

[abalashov]

True, but you still have to cough up. The benefit of renting is that it's an SEP (Someone Else's Problem).

[mchusma]

There are also home warranties or tech solutions/concierges like tidy.com.

The issue historically is that these concierge things are expensive (should be solved by tech/ai) and the warranties create their own class of problems (claim frustrations etc).

But home ownership is expensive, no way around it. But the work in coordinating etc doesn’t fundamentally need to be.

[hawaiianbrah]

Yep, I debated mentioning home warranty services, but that is also a thing a lot of folks surprisingly don’t know about.

[ashdksnndck]

When I bought my house the realtor gave me a free home warranty for a year (a $600 value vs the tens of thousands in commission they got paid). The old washing machine broke during that year and the home warranty did replace it, so on paper I got good value out of the policy.

However, I think it was on the phone with the company waiting on hold for about four hours total to process the claim. That was without any dispute or confusion, it’s just how long the process took. The person on the other end of the line would ask me one question, then put me on hold for another 15 minutes before asking the next question. I got the impression they are actually handling multiple customers at once and switching between us. I can only imagine this system is designed to deter folks from making claims. I was afraid to delay the call any longer by inquiring about whether there were multiple replacement models I could pick between. I received a $600 model from a manufacturer I wouldn’t have chosen.

If I’d paid $600 for that home warranty, I would not be a satisfied customer. I certainly wouldn’t recommend home warranties as a time-saver. It would be much easier to directly purchase products and services from people with some incentive to obtain my business.

[hawaiianbrah]

I definitely don’t think they’re generally worthwhile and don’t subscribe myself, but my in laws have had excellent luck with their policy.

[laughing_man]

Sort of. If it's not something that's damaging the building, landlords tend to not be in a huge hurry to fix things. So it's your problem until he gets around to fixing it. I've had good landlords and I've had landlords that took two weeks to fix the sink.

[abalashov]

I've had worse, and experienced the full range from literal slumlord--I say that advisedly and not frivolously--to excellent landlord. One does have to choose one's landlords somewhat carefully. However, on the higher end of housing, I've had very good experiences with this, in the median.

It has been my experience with nearly all of them that you need to limit their exposure to big, capital items, and might need to fix smaller items yourself, at own expense. To run the latter through the landlord is just more trouble than it's worth.

That's okay with me. Very small price to pay for the convenience of not having to own the thing, and moving out essentially whenever I please (no, a 12 mo lease isn't "whenever you please", but compared to a mortgage, it is).

Living in a college town, there's a lot of this "prelease for $((YEAR + 1)) in August of $YEAR" crap going on, which really, really grinds my gears, since it undermines the most cherished aspect of why I rent -- the freedom to move, move often, move quickly.

[hawaiianbrah]

Of course that’s a benefit of renting. How does that relate to the OP _homeowner_ saying one downside of ownership is they don’t have a single number to call for any maintenance issues?

[abalashov]

I guess on the face of it, it's not related. I didn't read his comment as literally lamenting the lack of a number, or even someone to orchestrate, but rather to imply that there's nobody on the hook for it in all facets. With a landlord, you just call the number and magic happens and it's free to you (in theory, not always in practice).

[hawaiianbrah]

Heh, gotcha. Yes, as a homeowner, the buck stops with you since you own it.

[pjc50]

This is also a hazard of renting, because the landlord will deal with it on their own schedule and as cheaply as possible.

[abalashov]

This is true. But I've had some really great landlords, too.

And some terrible ones.

[paul7986]

I owned two single family houses both built in 2002. I am not handy at all and only will do remodeling when im going to sell a house. I was fortunate with both houses needing very little maintenance over the 7 years i lived in them. If i did need a maintanence guy my realtor has a good number of great reliable contractors in her back pocket. Realtors who have been selling houses in your area for MANY years usually have a great rolodex of solid, reliable contractors at their disposal vs. going online and rolling the dice.

[silverlake]

I bought a fully renovated house as my first house. Unfortunately the builder was a moron. I spent 10 years with near constant repairs. Every house on my block has the same story: different builders, same shoddy quality. I was lucky to find a buyer that paid the asking price. I’m now happily renting again. I’ve always had great luck with rentals fixing things immediately.

[chrisweekly]

"Home ownership is definitely a lifestyle choice first and foremost more than a financial one."

Respectfully, that assertion isn't really supported by your anecdote.

[warumdarum]

Get good at one thing that needs regular doing, trade work with other homeowners who got good at another thing.

[kakacik]

... and thats why I prefer very much big apartment. There is concierge who takes care of all the outside, and we handle just the inside. Which in past 3 years meant 1 plumber and 2x heating specialist (but that was to give digital controls for floor heating for each room). My and my wife time is way more expensive than his.

House? All the land with endless lawn mowing and vegetation maintenance, the fences, all the connections, outside of the house, roof, garages. Its even more - most houses have boilers, many have heat pumps, solars etc. Plus all the internal stuff. Generally the biggest issue is usually some form of water damage over time.

No, thank you, we have 2 small kids and have more passion activities mostly in the mountains than we can handle. I could never make maintaining property into passion, its hobby at best but hardly something that would make me feel alive like say rock climbing or ski touring does. Being slave to the property sounds like a bad life choice if avoidable. If that means kids have to play outside of our property during 6 months of usable summer time instead of our backyard thats fine price to pay. And anyway you have neighbors in both cases. There is the part of having to agree as a collective, but most people are reasonable and you only need >50% of the votes.

[nsvd2]

Where I live (major city) because of zoning there are few apartment buildings and basically 100% are only for rent, not individually owned units. So if you want to own where you live it must be a townhome or detached house.

[sharts]

Time not spent drinking, etc. To some that’s a win

[ragall]

What maintenance is there to do exactly ?

[alistairSH]

Yard work, gutter cleaning, power washing exterior, cleaning windows, bi-annual HVAC service, exterior paint (especially if the house has any wood) and trim upkeep.

And as the house ages, you get things like repainting interior rooms, more frequent plumbing issues, major HVAC repairs, roof replacement, repaving driveway, electrical upgrades, remodeling, etc.

We downsized to a townhome to avoid some of that (half the walls are shared, so no exterior upkeep for those; smaller yard; fewer rooms).

[darth_avocado]

If you have a big enough yard, yard work in itself is a constant stream of work even if you have all the right equipment

[blackjack_]

I have 2/3rd of an acre, but most of it is a 45 degree hill, so it's more like a full acre equivalent of flat ground (except drastically more of a pain). Pulling weeds up several hundred feet of steep hillside that grow back constantly is a punishment worthy of Sisyphus.

It hadn't been done for about 5 years when we moved in, so one of the neighbors spent 200 hours cleaning it up for us. Not joking, 200 hours of labor. Scotch Broom is a literal nightmare.

[chongli]

Why not get rid of most of the grass (especially on the hill) and put in a perennial garden of hardy (for your zone) shrubs and trees?

[bell-cot]

> Why not get rid of...

Soil erosion.

[eudamoniac]

Weeds are pioneers, helping the soil, when nothing else can grow (or is allowed to). First of all why do you need to get rid of those weeds? Second of all, if you improve the soil and go through successive plantings of larger things, the weeds will be outcompeted.

[asdff]

You could just not do any of that stuff. Most people don't power wash their exterior or clean their windows. They don't call in hvac service, maybe just change the furnace or ac filter and probably plenty don't even know to do that. Exterior paint has become pretty rare in places that see weather but even then you can let it go to hell. Plenty do. Maybe some trim board will rot. Ehh. Priced in probably already when you bought it with that. Driveway you can also let go to hell, plenty of people use actual gravel or dirt. Roof replacement, plenty of people let that go too long. Repainting interiors, again something you don't have to ever do.

Is it good to do these maintenance items? Sure. But also, the house isn't going to come down if they aren't done. You go around your city right now you will find very few homes are actually upkept to this level. Most see the bare minimum to avoid the city fining you for the grass being too long, and many are sold in whatever state they are in.

[netule]

To add to the list: Replacing bad wood, pest service, aging appliances, fence maintenance, septic emptying (depending on your location), flooring wear and replacement, grouting and caulking, pest control, exterior cleaning, etc.

It can occasionally feel like an endless stream of tasks.

[ragall]

It never ceases to surprise me how North American homes are just a source of time wasting for the owners. I grew up in Italy and we never had to do any of that (except repainting the rooms once every 20 years with my father).

[duskdozer]

How you you occupy yourself without spending four hours every other day mowing the lawn (gas, ride-on) and then blowing the clippings and dust back and forth with your leafblower (gas, backpack) and then spreading fertilizer and chemicals to make sure you can continue mowing the lawn so frequently? My neighbor would lose his mind!

[ragall]

The main source of the need of maintenance in NA is the choice of construction materials and house design.

[bluesummers5651]

There is an ever-expanding list of maintenance tasks depending on the age of the house and its systems, all with different periodicities. A roof will typically not need to be replaced very often (let's say once every 20 years), but cleaning gutters at least annually is a must because overflowing gutters can lead to foundation issues, rot, etc. Depending on the size of the yard and what vegetation it has, yardwork can be at least a couple of hours a week in the warmer months. Making sure drains are clear is good practice to avoid catastrophic failure. And there's always random things like a fence board that needs to get replaced, chipped door that could use repainting, trim that needs replacing, etc. Newer houses will have (hopefully) fewer of these menial tasks, but as houses age things inevitably need attention due to the fact that it has to weather the elements and daily use all the time.

How much an individual homeowner cares about the minor cosmetic things vary, but skipping out on regularly checking the major stuff can lead to incredibly expensive problems like flooded basements, structural issues, major leaks, etc.

[bombcar]

The IRS allows you to depreciate rental real estate on set terms and ages, and they’re not really giving you much of anything. Houses have a complete and complex list of maintenance items.

If they didn’t, living in a rental that the landlord doesn’t spend anything on maintaining would be fine.

[steveBK123]

Basically everything. People think of homes as static but they are a big machine that is aging.

Nothing is getting better with time, only worse.

[no_wizard]

Condo is suppose to be that nice hybrid but they became enshittified long ago and have routinely proven to be bad deals for the average buyer in too many circumstances.

The US doesn’t understand how to make the housing market functional. I’d love to have a condo where a great many things are handled by the association but the math never maths, as they say, and a great deal of the issues is because condo associations aren’t well regulated and they often don’t account things correctly.

[steveBK123]

I’ve rented in a rental, rented in a condo, owned in a condo and owned a sfh.

Condos are in a lot of ways worse for ownership. You have communal costs you can’t control, risk of irresponsible neighbors (leaks), and limitations on who/what/when/how of repair or renovation you want to do within your own unit. All of which introduces coordination overhead, cost and time.

[bell-cot]

> The US doesn’t understand how to make the housing market functional.

I'd say the US understands how to make the housing market functional, but there are more-powerful interests pushing the market in other directions - financialization, extraction, NIMBYism, social exclusion, ...

[abalashov]

I had this, but as you say, it's risky. I do like renting condos, though -- not my problem either way.

[dominotw]

you prbly bought an old aging home

[shimman]

Every home will become old and aging...

[dominotw]

yes but you dont have to live there

[onecommentman]

But at varying rates determined by use, design and location. I recommend desert living if you want low maintenance, or even a graceful manageable decline. Maybe not true adobe that requires regular remudding, but frame-stucco or stabilized adobe. Becomes more charming with age. Taos Pueblo has been around for 1000 years…