[asdff]

>But the biggest thing is that I'm the only one in charge of maintenance. There's no one person I can call for every single problem. Keeping track of regular maintenance, performing that maintenance, and learning how to DIY things takes a lot of time. And even if I want to pay someone to do it for me, I still have to research contractors, coordinate estimates, and schedule the project. And I still need to learn enough about the project to determine whether they're doing it right!

The thing is, you can actually find these people. My landlord has one. Sage old handiman who knows everything about how the building works and fixed half of it himself already. Seemingly he can do every trade. He's under the building doing plumbing or electric one day. Landscaping the next. Installing appliances. Paint and drywall. Roofing. Most of the time it's him by himself, but he will occasionally bring out his crew of similar sage old handimen who know seemingly everything there is to know.

You don't need a contractor. They will give you the runaround. You need to find a handiman like this. Not easy I'm sure, but they are out there.

[AnthonyMouse]

> Seemingly he can do every trade. He's under the building doing plumbing or electric one day. Landscaping the next.

Doing this is basically illegal in modern day. The requirements to get even one trade license, much less more than one, are set up to make it uneconomical unless that trade is your full-time profession. Who can justify doing a multi-year full-time apprenticeship in each trade when they expect to spend 85% of their time mowing lawns and painting decks and other things that aren't that trade?

There are still people who do it, of course, but then you're stymied by their inability to lawfully advertise their services.

[lostapathy]

The other trouble is that every handyman thinks they have a great handle on everything but have at least one blind spot where they do really, really stupid stuff.

[cucumber3732842]

More often it's just that the situation changes with time.

Like someone will work with existing shared neutral aluminum circuit spaghetti because that seemed right when the scope was narrow. Maybe they're just throwing an outlet on the opposite side of the wall for someone's CPAP machine. Maybe they're actively avoiding putting it on the bedroom circuit because of which window the A/C goes in. Then the scope grows, circumstances change and the specialized solution is no longer optimal.

Then the next owner shows up and has to troubleshoot something and between hindsight and the smug know-it-alls on /r/everytrade (seriously, the internet is great at driving off people with wisdom and experience) they pronounce the prior guy to have been an idiot.

[AnthonyMouse]

It seems like you misspelled "human" there.

A large number of people can't afford contractor rates, so the alternative to the handyman is doing the work themselves. Who is more likely to screw it up, the person who does it once a month but not every day, or the person who does it once in their whole life?

[lostapathy]

Honestly, I'd debate this.

The problem is the "handyperson" may "know" (but not actually) and do what they think they know. When I encounter the same task, I don't know I stop and try to learn the right way first. So there's a good chance the homeowner is actually on a better path.

A lot of the handypeople you hire, kinda by nature of being under-the-radar, also end up intentionally cutting corners where "it doesn't matter" because savings are a priority for their customers, and it can go too far. I, on the other hand, at least know I'm not trying to cheap out on my own work just because my last customers were broke and I'm conditioned to working in that mode.

[AnthonyMouse]

> The problem is the "handyperson" may "know" (but not actually) and do what they think they know. When I encounter the same task, I don't know I stop and try to learn the right way first. So there's a good chance the homeowner is actually on a better path.

Maybe that's true for diligent technical people, but they're not the majority. The average person is going to watch a YouTube video, run out of free time and wing it.

> A lot of the handypeople you hire, kinda by nature of being under-the-radar, also end up intentionally cutting corners where "it doesn't matter" because savings are a priority for their customers, and it can go too far.

This is just humans again. Plenty of people willing to skimp out on something, even when it's for themselves, when it means saving time or money. Especially the people short on time or money.

> I, on the other hand, at least know I'm not trying to cheap out on my own work just because my last customers were broke and I'm conditioned to working in that mode.

This is the argument for doing it yourself when you have the time and wherewithal to do it yourself. It's not an argument for pressuring people to do it themselves when they don't have the time and wherewithal by making the only other lawful alternative be the one they can't afford.

[rascul]

Licenses aren't always required in all areas. But there seem to be fewer of those areas than there used to be.

[bigstrat2003]

I'm sure it varies from location to location, but my handyman has said that the line here is modifying existing infrastructure versus installing new stuff. The former is fine without a license, the latter not. Thankfully, I've never yet needed him to do work that falls in the latter bucket.

[halostatue]

There's a fine line between large modifications to existing infrastructure and "new stuff". You need a handyman you can trust in order to know the difference.

It also depends on your insurance situation. If I'm doing renovations, my house insurance company will not honour my insurance if the work is being done by a contractor without knowing the insurance status of the contractor.

One thing to consider is whether there is a reasonably-priced "emergency contractor" service to which you can subscribe. Enercare in Toronto offers plumbing protection for $21/mo and electrical protection for $16/mo. Service calls — 24 hour service calls — are included and covered in the plan, and labour for fixing the problem is included. We've had multiple cases where we've needed to call a plumber out to look at issues and it would have cost ~$200 to get them in the door and more than $400 by time the work was done. We've also used them for discounted plumbing work (15% off labour and most parts) in the past when we didn't have a different contractor for something we needed done.

[xphos]

Honestly the most shocking think i learned when moving to Massachusetts was that only licenced trade people can request to have work done inspected. This was insane to me. Why would towns not want amature work not to be inspected. It wasn't illegal for a homeowner with poor experience to electrical, gas, HVAC, without a inspection... It was wild, I understand know its like this because its basically impossible to get certified in trades without it being your full time job and scares people from doing stuff on their own. But I think its also really damaging to society because people who don't know what they are doing will still do things and it shows in houses in Massachusetts which have incorrect wiring, bad plumbing, unlevel floors. Its because we overly protect the trade from handyman.

[duskdozer]

Oh, wow. So if you buy a house and find some sketchy looking work later on, would you have to find a pro to even call in an inspection, and would they even do that without getting some commitment to fix it if something's wrong?

[bombcar]

If you treat your house like a rental that you rent to yourself, you can avoid a bunch of headaches - mainly because you’ve given yourself “permission” to spend on it.

[natebc]

wait ... There are landlords out there who will "spend on it"?

Mine took 3 weeks to replace a broken HVAC when it was 35 degress out. 5 days to fix a toilet that when flushed dumped sewage into my downstairs neighbors ceiling.

Maybe if you're treating yourself as a tenant but your run of the mill rent extracting (or worse, middle man) landlord is the cheapest creature on the land.

[bombcar]

There are, but they're often found in places where the rent pressure isn't so great (e.g., there are many options for renters). When demand is so high or prices are fixed, everything else goes out the window; because what are you going to do, move?

[harperlee]

Don't know about your landlord specifically, and I'm no landlord, but there's also a bunch of people (including homeowners) that will wait until summer starts to test and then complain about HVAC... just on peak season for HVAC maintenance, where the waiting times are long (and the price will probably be higher).

[apothegm]

Owner-occupiers in 2-6 unit buildings (who don’t have RE empires beyond that). The incentives are wildly different.

[rascul]

There are good landlords. Unfortunately many of them aren't and there's not really a good way to know before.

[taneq]

Yeah but then I have to deal with my tenant. :P

[bombcar]

Evicting yourself and taking yourself to court could have fun Fogerty vs Fogerty vibes!

[taneq]

You jest, but a couple of years ago I added myself to my company’s workers compensation insurance in case I get injured. If I ever do I’ll have to put in a claim against myself and hope my insurance covers it. :P

[Suppafly]

>If you treat your house like a rental that you rent to yourself, you can avoid a bunch of headaches

Or you do a bunch of shitty halfass 'landlord fixes'

[brudgers]

My landlord has one.

That is a B2B relationship, not a B2C one.

The old handyman probably might not need new customers and even if they do, they probably don’t want random homeowners because the inexperienced tend to have unrealistic expectations and only own one property,

[jdbernard]

To provide a counterexample, my parents always had a handyman growing up. I think they still do. Not the same guy through all the years, but they've always managed to find one.

[groby_b]

> He's under the building doing plumbing or electric one day.

I believe I've encountered that guys electrical work, and it ain't sage :)

(I.e. there are a few of those "fix it all" guys, but they're not always code compliant. They do get stuff done, though)

[mc3301]

Plumbing: plumber. Electrics: electrician.

Most other things (besides obvious big things like foundation, drainage, roofing, load supporting areas) can be done with a good "fix it all" kinda person, or (with patience) youtube.

[laughing_man]

Plumbing isn't all that complicated, really. There are things you have to understand, but a little research will take you a long way.

I only call the plumber when I don't have the equipment I'd need, like cameras and snakes.

[obloid]

If you're comfortable doing DIY a lot of equipment can be rented at your local Home Depot or similar store. I had a clogged sewer line and rented a drain snake for the afternoon. Much cheaper than calling the plumber.

The thing I won't do is roof work. Too scary.

[cucumber3732842]

>The thing I won't do is roof work. Too scary.

And that's why you're still allowed to DIY it.

If schlepping packs of shingles onto a 150deg roof was as easy as pulling wire or laying pipe (heh) they'd have trade groups and lobbyists convincing the government to keep you from doing it yourself just like the lower altitude trades do.

[laughing_man]

I stay off the roof too. That's for younger and more nimble guys.

I had a boss who was up on his roof installing an antenna when he slipped and fell off. It was a scene from a 1920s comedy -- his wife was looking out the window and saw her husband's falling body flash by.

Only it's not funny IRL. His liver was punctured, he lost his spleen, and his back was never right again.

[Gigachad]

In many countries you are legally required to use a licensed plumber and electrician.

[bradleyjg]

> Not easy I'm sure,

Can confirm it’s not easy. If you want to describe a method of finding one, I’m all ears.

[aidenn0]

Ask your realtor for references.

[panzagl]

Or your office/building manager at work.

[LoganDark]

Why would you ask a realtor?

[BuyMyBitcoins]

Realtors tend to have a lot of contacts. The realtor I worked with knew “a great guy” for every aspect of the house (roof, plumbing, cabinets, driveways, etc.) due to the fact that she naturally encountered so many of these tradespeople.

She would get recommendations from sellers. Either the seller recently had work done in order to improve the home before putting it on the market, or, the seller had some trusted expert they used for years.

My realtor actually encouraged me to ask her for any contacts if I needed something done in the future. I sense that her contacts like having customer referrals as well.

[koolba]

Realtors are also notorious for recommending service providers that give them a kick back.

[duped]

Finders fees aren't nefarious

[memcg]

Realtors often have a list of contractors they rely on to help potential sellers get their homes ready for sale. I have found and used recommended roofers, plumbers, HVAC and electricians from a local realtor that wants my future business.

[kxrm]

I would caution seeing a Realtor as an easy way to avoid doing your homework on someone. I did this long ago and the Realtor's recommendation was one of the worst I have ever worked with.

There is, unfortunately, no shortcut to finding quality handymen.

[pavon]

Seconded. What Realtors value in a contractor is someone who will respond quickly and do a job that looks good on the surface to avoid delaying closing. For the most part they don't know whether the job was well done and will hold up over time since they are already on to the next house.

[Forgeties79]

you can definitely save a lot of time by asking your friends for referrals. Anybody who loves their Electrician/Plumber should be listened to in particular.

[aidenn0]

A good realtor will often not recommend the same contractors that they use for prepping a home for sale. The requirements for getting a home in saleable condition and getting a home in livable condition are not always the same.

Instead they act as an information hub for homeowners.

Obviously "good realtor" is doing a lot of work here, and I don't know how you find a good realtor (kind of lucked into mine after having a terrible one for my first purchase).

[LoganDark]

It sucks to find good tradespeople because word of mouth does so much for them that they hardly advertise. So if you actively look for one, you tend to ONLY find the bad ones, and you're actually less likely to find the good ones... unless you know someone who happens to know someone. Which sucks since I don't know anyone (and trying to look for someone encounters the exact same problem)