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by anthonypasq 22 days ago
if all these drivers are getting horribly exploited why are they doing it?
13 comments

It's a bit like a payday loan — the drivers need money _today_ and effectively borrow against the depreciation of their vehicle.
https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/jle/vol59/iss1/8/

Banning payday loans tends to shift borrowers to worse forms of credit.

One imagines worsening the economics of ride share jobs will do the same.

Not sure why you're being downvoted, this is what I've heard as well. It gets a person cash while they are in transitionary periods of time. There are not a lot of jobs you can get paid for almost immediately- most require startup time, training, applications, etc.
that sounds like a benefit, not abuse.
All because you’re being exploited doesn’t mean you can’t voice your want to change things.

Some of these workers might find that the only gig that they can rely on is ride share for various reasons.

Various reasons necessarily include the successful business model of the ride share companies.
There's no better option on the table? Desperate people have low labor elasticity, kind of definitionally.
It’s the information disparity resulting in reduced bargaining power. The unions are supposed to solve that actually.

I wonder if Americans would have more positive opinions on this if unions were called platforms, and were for profit companies that you can trade the shares.

When they sign up enough people they can enough information and use financial instruments to force fair market value and eat into other companies margins and share that with their subscribers.

this is genius... and call shop stewards 'agents'... and call the act of unionising an org "agentifying a node flock"...
You might ask the same about any exploitive relation.

Why is there prostitution?

Why are slaves doing work for their masters?

Why are children going through our garbage in some distant country, if they hardly earn enough to eat?

i dont think the choice between driving Uber and working at Walmart is the same as being a slave or dying.
True, they are not the same. But they probably feel similarly coerced into accepting an unfair deal.

So yeah, the comparisons are hyperboles, but I totally feel why they're upset and hope collective bargaining helps better their situation.

It's not unfair if it's entered voluntarily. Prostitution and slavery are not entered (or retained) voluntarily.
I suppose this comes down to semantics. It's more grey than black and white. For instance, Russia doesn't send conscripts to fight in Ukraine. But it's hard to argue that soldiers fighting and dying in the front lines made a fair choice, while they weren't forced to sign a contract.

Similarly, there are Uber and Lyft drivers that don't have the economic freedom or level of education to work anywhere else.

> Similarly, there are Uber and Lyft drivers that don't have the economic freedom or level of education to work anywhere else.

I doubt this is true. There are much, much worse jobs. This is just their best option, and it's easier to band together and demand more and more even if it kills the host.

Never a shortage of pedants on HN.
"Why are slaves doing work for their masters?"

Maybe drop that one from the list.

Because the alternative is being homeless.
what a revealing question. why don't you ask one next time you're in a car?
I have, they mostly say they enjoy it, they can work when they want, scale up when they need more money, scale down when they dont, decent money etc.

flexible, supplemental income.

I'm asking this earnestly, do you ever follow up and ask if the added money/income offsets the additional wear and tear on their vehicles? Like do most of those folks you talk to understand the potential trade off? I would think the average rideshare driver understands that generally ("of course the added mileage decreases the value of the car!"), but I wonder how many folks take the time to quantify it, even roughly. Seems like a logical follow-up question when you're interviewing/making small talk with them.
no i respect people's intelligence enough to assume they wouldn't be working all day for $0
white savior complex is rampant in these threads. Insisting they know better for someone else.
> Insisting they know better for someone else

Well it's the drivers themselves who voted to join the union, so presumably there's something they want to see changed. No need to speak for people who've already found their voice.

Not sure why you want to bring race into this, people from all backgrounds have the right to free association and deserve labor representation.

Food and shelter?
To pay for tomorrow perhaps.
Why are children mining rare minerals in Africa? Why are workers handling toxic waste in the name of recycling in Bangladesh? Surely they can all work from home and leave their jobs if it’s that exploitative
Yes they can if those options are available. "Exploitative" doesn't mean "this is the best option for a free choosing individual".
Surely this is a dark joke.

People need to eat, dude.

Sorry... What?

What makes it okay to exploit them?

I’d guess because most don’t correctly account for wear and tear and depreciation of their car when they do their mental profit calculation.
It's definitely not because of this. They are not stupid.
right, so the real answer is that all these poor immigrants are too stupid to realize they are losing money. lovely class solidarity there.