[gt0]

I thought the same. If it had a Kia badge on it, it wouldn't shock me, and I think Kia make some quite nice cars now.

I don't like the interior. I think this style can work for some things, it reminds me of a NuPhy keyboard, blocky plastic that looks nice in some circumstances.

For me this is not a Ferrari-standard of car, Ferraris are strikingly beautiful, and this just isn't.

[Mikho]

Ferrari Luce is the nicest KIA design ever.

[rickdeckard]

Or a fairly nice evolution of Honda maybe...

[TylerE]

Never buy a Hyundai/Kia. They make the dumbest cost cutting decisions, like their recent immobilizer fiasco. The dealers are also, largely without exception, terrible.

[seabass-labrax]

Several Kia models produced around 2005 incorporated the questionable design of having the engine control electronics located below the oil sump - as I've seen first-hand what that does to the vehicle's maintenance costs, I'm inclined to agree with you!

[Copernicron]

I know a number of people with this view on Kia and Hyundai. "They were garbage back in 199X or 200X so they're still garbage now." Except that was twenty or thirty years ago and from what I've heard they made advances in design and quality since then.

[TylerE]

The immobilizer issue I mentioned effects virtually every Kia built between 2011 and 2021.

They also do not do well in CR's annual surveys.

They're still bad, and there is ample objective evidence.

[Copernicron]

Most of what I've heard is about the electric vehicles they produce, not the ICE cars. My understanding is their EVs are different beasts and much better.

[bombcar]

Kia has some competitive vehicles in niches that not many seem to want to service, and I suspect many of their buyers do not live in areas where immobilizers are going to be a major issue.

Our dealer was fine, and it's been fine. It's a car car, not really doing anything amazing.

Brands, but especially Asian ones, seem to go through cycles - this thing is absolute shit, nobody buy it, company fixes the problems and gets reliable, but still thought of as crap, company keeps improving, people start to notice, becomes known as a real good and reliable deal, company starts charging more and more. Kia's on the ascendant right now, where Toyota was 20+ years ago.

[BoingBoomTschak]

The immobilizer thing isn't due to stupidity, but corner cutting taken to ridiculous extremes. I don't think a company can recover from being run down by bean counters.

[Jblx2]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hyundai+iccu

[lukan]

Maybe, but anecdotically people I know who bought new Kia's also got rid of them, after trying different models that all had interesting problems.

[lbreakjai]

Kia is pretty much well regarded in Europe. It was the first company to offer a 7 years warranty. I've been very happy with mine.

[turtlesdown11]

They offer (still I assume) a ten year warranty in the States. They offer such a long warranty because the perceived reliability of their vehicles is so low.

[vlucas]

The dealer issues are true, but we have been very happy with our 2021 Hyundai Palisade Calligraphy after owning it for 5+ years and 82k miles. Budget luxury with pretty good handling and performance. It's a great value package if you need a 3rd row vehicle (I have 4 kids).