[seabass-labrax]

Several Kia models produced around 2005 incorporated the questionable design of having the engine control electronics located below the oil sump - as I've seen first-hand what that does to the vehicle's maintenance costs, I'm inclined to agree with you!

[Copernicron]

I know a number of people with this view on Kia and Hyundai. "They were garbage back in 199X or 200X so they're still garbage now." Except that was twenty or thirty years ago and from what I've heard they made advances in design and quality since then.

[TylerE]

The immobilizer issue I mentioned effects virtually every Kia built between 2011 and 2021.

They also do not do well in CR's annual surveys.

They're still bad, and there is ample objective evidence.

[Copernicron]

Most of what I've heard is about the electric vehicles they produce, not the ICE cars. My understanding is their EVs are different beasts and much better.

[bombcar]

Kia has some competitive vehicles in niches that not many seem to want to service, and I suspect many of their buyers do not live in areas where immobilizers are going to be a major issue.

Our dealer was fine, and it's been fine. It's a car car, not really doing anything amazing.

Brands, but especially Asian ones, seem to go through cycles - this thing is absolute shit, nobody buy it, company fixes the problems and gets reliable, but still thought of as crap, company keeps improving, people start to notice, becomes known as a real good and reliable deal, company starts charging more and more. Kia's on the ascendant right now, where Toyota was 20+ years ago.

[BoingBoomTschak]

The immobilizer thing isn't due to stupidity, but corner cutting taken to ridiculous extremes. I don't think a company can recover from being run down by bean counters.

[Jblx2]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hyundai+iccu

[lukan]

Maybe, but anecdotically people I know who bought new Kia's also got rid of them, after trying different models that all had interesting problems.