[syntaxing]

Serious question, I have a Bambulab printer now. What is a good next printer option? Prusa is way too expensive without a decent AMS alternative. Flashforge is doing some sketchy stuff with their maker site + AI. Is Creality or QIDI the best next options?

[sen]

I’ve owned half a dozen printers (Prusa, Bambu, and Creality) and help manage a hackerspace with a print farm of mixed brands, and I won’t personally touch any brand other than Prusa now for actually getting prints done.

There’s plenty of other printers that can do the same or better and/or cheaper if you want “building and managing the printer” to be half the hobby, which is a totally fair thing and can be lots of fun if you’re into tinkering, but for a printer that just prints things as a tool there’s absolutely nothing close to Prusa and they’re worth every cent.

[silversmith]

That used to be the case. Less so now - the Chinese brands tend to work right out of the box.

I run an Elegoo Centauri Carbon ar home, and the building and managing process was unscrewing couple transport bolts and clicking "self calibrate" button. From what I've seen, Creality is the same way now too.

Yes, the old Ender 3 I used to have demanded attention every other print. But it's not the norm now.

I'm sure Prusa makes a better product, and it probably starts to make economic sense if you run a print farm. But for home use, a 300€ box that happily melts plastic into whatever shape I need is a sweet deal. It even has a 50€ multi material extension box now, however that's on months long backorder.

[DoctorOetker]

do these alternatives all share the same pattern of providing cloud services like BambuLabs?

[silversmith]

As far as I know, Elegoo is offline. It has not asked me to log in anywhere, and while it encourages use of their own orcaslicer skin, it works with others too.

[the_af]

I don't know about other brands or even models, but I can attest that the Bambu A1 Mini "just works".

I precisely wanted to avoid another hobby, of which I have too many already. 3D printing as a hobby doesn't appeal to me, I just wanted something that solved the problem and was relatively cheap. The A1 is this for me, it's as close as a fire and forget appliance as I could find.

Not saying there aren't better alternatives, just that it simply works for me.

[VorpalWay]

The A1 mini has turned out to be a fire hazard as of recently. Some component in the power supply that can explode and in the worst case catch fire. Multiple events during the last year, and shockingly it hasn't been recalled. You probably don't want to run yours while not in the room.

[the_af]

Thanks, I'll pay attention. To be honest I never run anything without me in the same room or the next one, so I should be safe.

[_zoltan_]

building and managing a printer is far from a hobby. it's like the Linux desktop people who just fight with their system instead of enjoying MacOS.

[victor_z]

If this isn't trigger bait, I don't know what is.

I don't know the last time you used Linux, but I've used it as my main OS for almost 20 years and have never really felt like I was "fighting" it. My system has always done exactly what I told it to do.

I also used Mac OS and macOS on and off for probably 20 years as well, and it freaking sucks in many ways. _That's_ where I feel like I'm fighting the system. And I grew up with it.

[the_af]

We Linux desktop people aren't fighting our desktop anymore. Everything just works and it has for some years now. Linux with Steam + Proton is a better gaming platform than MacOS, by the way.

The Year of the Linux Desktop arrived a while ago and nobody noticed :)

[yjftsjthsd-h]

Well, you can choose to fight your OS (said with love from a Gentoo and NixOS user). You just don't have to:)

[hju22_-3]

> Everything just works and it has for some years now.

Strange then, that so many people and particularly those who haven't spent years or decades fighting their OS or desktop environment, seem to disagree.

Every time a linux user says "everything just works" there's a massive gotcha. Remove the terminal and try to use a linux system, setting everything up, while properly roleplaying those who haven't spent years to get used to linux's many weird choices and you'll perhaps understand.

[dns_snek]

You can replace "linux" with "windows" in your comment and make the same point.

I've installed Ubuntu and Fedora KDE for less technical relatives and they've used them without issues.

[skeledrew]

> get used to linux's many weird choices

Choices are only weird if there's prior experience with something else with significant enough differences. In this case I still remember the effort it took to switch from Windows to Linux, but I used Zorin OS to make that road smoother.

[the_af]

I mean, I mentioned Steam and Proton, every game works now and you don't have to do anything. What's less "terminal user" than that?

I suggest you try it now, I think you're stuck on outdated knowledge.

[skeledrew]

I've been using Linux for 12 years and never fought it. Before that I had a lot of fights with Windows though, which is why I left it.

[microtonal]

I think the answer is still Prusa. It's mostly Chinese companies undercutting Prusa's price and they probably care as little about free software licenses and users as Bambu.

I saw this mess coming from miles ahead (and it will repeat itself), so when it was time to replace our Ender 3v2, I got a Prusa printer. Yes, it was much more expensive than Bambu, but at some point we have to put our money where our mouth is. We cannot talk all the time about open source, consumer friendliness, the right to repair, etc. and then reward companies that don't give a shit about it. So our money went to Prusa.

It's a great printer too!

[Gigachad]

The Prusa i3 mk4 is about 4 times as expensive as the roughly equivalent A1. Their stuff also seems to have less features and less polish.

I get voting with your wallet but not many people want to spend 4x more for a worse product.

[microtonal]

Maybe it's because I am in Europe, here it's slightly less than 3x or about 2x when you buy a kit.

European/US products are always going to be substantially more expensive because they pay employees better, have better labor laws, have more strict regulations to deal with (GDPR, etc.), cannot freeload on other people's work while violating open source licenses, don't get state funding to murder Western competitors, etc.

If you buy Bambu, you are supporting AGPL violations. If you buy Prusa, you are supporting development of open source firmware, open source slicers, and a company that is friendly to self repairs and makes it possible print replacement parts for your printer.

I understand that not everyone can afford a Prusa printer. But most people on HN have a lot of disposable income. If you choose to support the greedy, anti-consumer, anti-open source company anyway, don't complain the next time a open source project cannot be sustained even though they are used by large companies, don't complain production is moving away from the west, and don't complain when you get locked into cloud services. You supported these practices.

I am not saying that you are complaining about this, but a lot of people are, but when push comes to shove they don't put their money where their mouth is.

[GZGavinZhao]

> I get voting with your wallet but not many people want to spend 4x more for a worse product.

Yeah as much as I like Prusa, I really hope they figure out how to cut down their prices because, let's be real, most of the people buying a 3D printer don't give a cent about how "open" it is, and if Prusa continues this trend I'm afraid it'll become obsolete. Having competitors with genuinely good products (like Bambu, despite them not being a good company) is healthy, but not helpful if Prusa doesn't do anything to catch up to their competitor.s

[fuomag9]

I got a P1S for 500€ and what was already at the limit of my budget for what I use the 3D printer for (very sporadic small parts/gadgets)

[GZGavinZhao]

I assume you're into multi-material printing and want a true multi-extruder setup. Then, quality wise your remaining options are: Prusa, Flashforge, and Snapmaker. Snapmaker very recently just shot themselves in the foot in a similar way that Bambu did, so you're left with Prusa and Flashforge. Of the two remaining, I really only trust Prusa.

Yes you pay a lot more, but I guess that's some sense voting with your wallet... I'm personally going to buy a Prusa after I stabilize where I live.

[VorpalWay]

Another option would be a Voron kit with INDX or some other tool changer added to it.

(Also, what did Snapmaker do? I thought they were relatively innocuous?)

[chime]

Yeah, I'm curious too because I've been following all 3d printer news lately and only news re: Snapmaker is that they officially hired Ratdoux who came up with the full spectrum printing and they're integrating it into Snapmaker Orca.

Orca really needs a plugin system so that we don't get so many forks. I want full spectrum, wave overhangs, Snapmaker customizations for their printers, Sovol customizations for theirs. I also want the latest Orca nightly. So that's 5 different forks of Orca a good plugin system could replace.

[GZGavinZhao]

Oops my bad, I mixed up Flashforge and Snapmaker. It was Flashforge that also started closing down their ecosystem. Snapmaker has been having a good track record so far with their open-source Klipper-based firmware and I hope they continue to do so!

[kiba]

INDX is an up and coming option that will probably change how multimaterial printing done, hopefully. I bought the founder edition but it will be a long time coming.

As an aspiring business owner, I am looking to transition to a more open printer as the OCL isn't something I want to rely on.

[jogu]

What’s wrong with the OCL if you’re a business owner?

[kiba]

I don't want to ask Prusa for permission.

[jogu]

Permission to do what exactly?

Was there something before the OCL you could / were planning to do that the OCL now prohibits?

[kiba]

I don't know why it's so mysterious for you. It's not an open hardware platform and prusa is the gatekeeper here.

[cassianoleal]

I think it's as misterios to GP as to anyone else, inclusing yourself given how difficult it seems to be to come up with an actual answer.

[VorpalWay]

The thing is, a Prusa will last way longer, and when something breaks it is fully serviceable. All the cheap Chinese brands are at best only partially serviceable. Just the other day I saw a post about a BambuLabs X1C that had to be thrown out because of a pully that was worn out and not replaceable.

Snapmaker (also Chinese) seem to be doing things better at the moment, but only time will tell how the serviceability is.

For me personally, the only viable choices today would be a Prusa Core One (possibly with INDX for multi-material, I don't care about MMU/AMS, those are just for multi-colour and with a lot of waste) or a Voron 2.4. My Prusa Mk3.9s bedslinger is still going strong though, and I don't expect to replace it any time soon.

[BozeWolf]

Is it worth the upgrade to 3.x? I have the mk3s for years now and I love it. No issues at all. Bought it after I finished my freelance job at Ultimaker, as I had to return my S3. I wanted a premium experience, which prusa sure has. Considering upgrading the 3 or buy a new prusa core something something.

Second hand market for prusa printers is decent as well.

[VorpalWay]

Mk3s is indeed great. I tend to swap nozzle often (different sizes, hardened vs brass) and the Nextruder makes that way easier. I also don't have a space where I can print overnight so the additional speed was extremely useful to me.

The Mk3.9 probably isn't a price competitive upgrade though, today I would in your position probably look at selling the Mk3s for 100-200 EUR and buying a Core One instead. But if the Mk3s works for what you are doing, then don't bother. (The Mk3.5 might make some sense if you only want a bit higher speed and network connectivity.)

Personally I don't see myself replacing the Mk3.9s for a long time, though an enclosed printer would be nice and let me print warp-prone materials like PC and ASA.

[BozeWolf]

Thanks!! Speed indeed would be nice. Could go for 3.5 then. the enclosure looks better and keeps dust away from the buildplate. I think i will eventually go with core one then.

[VorpalWay]

I'm not sure if a 3.5 will be as fast as a 3.9. You could enable printers you are interested in in the slicer and slice some typical models of yours.

Because of things like acceleration and flow limits the scaling isn't as simple as a constant factor but also depends on the geometry of the part (sharp corners lead to slowing down) and material (check max volumetric flow in your slicer, will likely be set way too low for your current filament profiles, especially if you switch to a high flow nozzle on the nextruder).

[consp]

If anyone has a flashforge check out the alternative OS with all the normal goodies without the proprietary crap for the 5m. I adjusted most of the original on printer display code for it back in the first version and I guess it has been improved by now (don't have the printer anymore). Would not recommend to buy one now since they "open source" their code but won't provide the makefile to build it which likely contains a bunch of external references. So you cannot build your own klipper code for it or update it in any way. They raised the "proprietary code" argument of course which is bs on the level of an entire herd.

[chime]

Depends on your budget but I am extremely happy with Snapmaker U1. I print with ASA, PETG, and TPU. It prints PLA very well by default. It runs klipper, gives you full SSH with root. I installed paxx12's extended firmware using a USB flash drive - https://github.com/paxx12-snapmaker-u1/SnapmakerU1-Extended-... and have been able to get 20+ fps camera feed.

[ssl-3]

I think that you're just asking for printers that are strictly offline -- and by "offline," I mean: They don't connect to any mothership, ever, nor do they have any facility by which to do so.

There's a ton of printers that are strictly offline. Some are older and some are newer, but there's a ton of them either way. That "offline" part is simple to accomplish.

Can you talk more about what else are you looking to achieve so the field can be pared down a bit?

[sdenton4]

Prusa is awesome, and a great next printer once you know you're in.