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by SoftTalker 33 days ago
Yet another case where text printed on paper outlived any digital storage.
2 comments

Seems like it was never digitally stored in the first place, and the printed text was barely readable due to age. Not really a big win for paper.
Well it had to have been on disk or tape at some point. It wasn't all typed in by hand every time they needed to build a new version.
unless they used punch cards
Punch cards are still a form of digital storage, mind.
Also a form of storing things on paper
Reminds me of an old fortune cookie message or meme, something like "digital data is made from analog parts".
> unless they used punch cards

For MS-DOS?

Not likely. Punch cards disappeared around the end of 1976.
I remember seeing stacks of cards being carried into/out of the university "computing center" in the mid 1980s, on more than a couple of occasions. Though in retrospect, these were probably just old programs that had been in various professors offices since the mid 70s, being taken to get read into some disk in the mainframe.
We still learned how to use them in the 80’s high school computer classes, mostly because we had a balance of CP/M plus card-reader/early DOS machines, eventually .. in the labs. Rich kid schools had Apples though, and some of them also had card readers for BASIC ..
My firt job out of college in the early 1990s was at an equipment manufacturer who was still using them. They had a big chart on the wall titled "punch-card elimination" and a line trending down, but it wasn't at zero yet.

My work there was all new code and didn't involve any of that, however.

My college used them for PL/I and IBM Assembly language programming classes until 1982. Cards were used well into the mid-80s.
I learned COBOL in college at UNC-W on punch cards in 1980.
We still used them in the university as late as in 2010...

...as writing paper.

I threw out all my punch cards. Wish I'd kept at least a listing!
I find punch cards being used in old engineering books I buy from the 60s.

Maybe write them again?

Punch* 'em again
The idea that it never existed digitally is obviously untrue. Likely poor wording in the author's part. They probably meant something like, so old that a printout is all that survived (which sounds vaguely like not being digital to someone in an era so far removed from a time when programs were/could realistically be printed.)
Having printouts were necessary when:

1. you were using a DECwriter dot matrix printer as a terminal

2. using an ASR-33 teletype as a terminal

3. using punch cards or paper tape

4. using a glass tty that could only display 24 lines

5. when you did not have a remote terminal, and wanted to spread your code out on a table and debug it

Brings back memories of desk checking
> a time when programs were/could realistically be printed

Really depends on the program. Source code is often quite manageable. Even artifacts aren't always as large as you might expect. Busybox on my system weighs in at 1.9 MiB or alternatively 928 KiB with zstd maxed out.

But I don't really see a point to printing any of it. A situation that might require the printouts is likely to largely preclude the continued existence of modern electronics, the ability to replace batteries, or even a connection to a reliable electrical grid.

Yeah, that's why I tried to include both categories. Even for programs that are small enough to be printed, we just don't do it any more. I could have worded that part better myself.
Early versions of some things, MS Basic being one example I think, were baked into ROM. One of the best innovations that Paul Allen came up with was adding software hooks to the code so bugs that were found later could still be patched.
How did they print it then, I wonder?
They had some old German guy with a big beard, and two interns, running some sort of big contraption that looked like a medieval torture instrument, and the interns would run and put letters in a row and then the old guy move a massive letter and in the end out came a bit of paper with source code on it.
I appreciate the subtle sarcasm, I did not consider a printing press as an option!
Where can I buy this printer?
Humbrechthof, Mainz, Germany ofc.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbrechthof)

One has to be pretty ignorant and dismissive to claim that this is not "a big win for paper".

First of all, that comment is weirdly out of place. The quality and longevity of paper is not the topic.

Secondly, there are fragments of paper with writing as old as 2,000 years.

Thirdly, paper you look at and see the writing. With digital documents, you need the technology to read the medium and then you need to know how the information was encoded onto the medium, before you even arrive at the same level with paper, where you can start to decide the actual writing.

Paper has brought us where we are today, and given us what we know about the past. Don't be so ignorant and dismissive.

> struggled with the quality of the decades-old printout.

barely

It sounds like this printout has deteriorated badly and was barely readable.

If it was your standard issue cheap dot-matrix printout, it may not been particularly legible even back then.
Even if the printer itself was fine it doesn't imply the ribbon was wet enough.