[gdubs]

As an American, I just want to say that I'm very dismayed by the discourse around this topic over the past 24 hours in particular. The polarization of politics has become so intense, that the bipartisan mainstream position of just a couple of decades ago – that immigrants are a net positive to this country – feels like a distant dream.

We've gone from perpetually punting the football on comprehensive immigration reform, to people saying, "Good, go back home, we don't want you here."

The same people who want to paint the Statue of Liberty gold seem to have no clue what it represents.

[tamimio]

Immigrants are the low hanging fruit to attack, and the best to blame all your suffering on, meanwhile, the real issue is wealth distribution. Since covid, the very few people got mega wealthier while the majority suffered, do you just leave it as is for people to find out? No, you push other distractions like immigrants, race rage baits, and other nonsense to keep people busy fighting each other.

[RoadieRoller]

This ^ If it is secularism and religion in some countries, it is language and ethinicity in some other, and immigration and racism in America. Depends on the timing, and the need for it, politicians use it to their advantage.

[stdatomic]

> meanwhile, the real issue is wealth distribution

This is so mind-boggling to me. Why do the poor keep defending the billionaires?

[alterom]

Oh they have a clue. They just want to rub it in.

"Look how prosperous we got off your backs, suckers!" is the intended message.

It's taunting.

[horns4lyfe]

Ya, because we never got immigration reform

[array_key_first]

The evidence for the need of immigration reform was always weak and, frankly, basically non-existent.

What happened was white people saw brown people coming in and got uncomfortable. That's it. The rest was just "fill in the blank" reasoning. Something something medicare, something something housing... eh yeah that's good enough we need immigration reform!

But that's been happening in the US for many generations now. That's just how the US works; we get a lot of immigrants and they become US citizens. If not them, then their kids. Yeah, welcome to America.

[solid_fuel]

> The same people who want to paint the Statue of Liberty gold seem to have no clue what it represents.

Well, yes. The current administration and the republican party as a whole are composed of fascists and thieves who steal from hardworking citizens like you and I to fund vanity projects like a ballroom and "Arc de Triomphe but bigger and gold".

They're shitting on the history of our country and all the people who have sacrificed to make this place what it is today, and they're doing it just to enrich themselves.

Frankly they are traitors and I hope that in time the wheel of history will deal with them as traitors deserve.

[biddit]

> The polarization of politics has become so intense

> The same people who want to paint the Statue of Liberty gold seem to have no clue what it represents

You seem to be lamenting political polarization and in the same breath making character attacks on one side of the isle. Pick one.

[yacin]

can we not call a spade a spade anymore? what part of cruelly cancelling green card applications fits with “give me your tired, your poor?”

[biddit]

> cruelly cancelling

This is assigning intent without evidence, as is common in tribal politics. A non-charged assessment might use the phrase "abrupt cancelling."

We cannot create a better republic without constructive discourse, and we cannot have constructive discourse when we default to characterizing the views, concerns, and actions of those we disagree with as rooted in moral failure. Even if it is true from time to time.

[skulk]

This chiding from you would be better received if there was a shred of evidence that the other tribe is even slightly receptive to this kind of discourse.

Unfortunately, the norms of discourse are pretty much gone. This is terrifying in the long-term.

posted 7 years ago but applies far more broadly now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A

[thrownthatway]

If you were to try to convince me a 2:1 immigrant to local birth ratio here in Australia is a net good for the country, you’re first going to have to convince me your a reasonable person to have a conversation with.

If you jump straight in with claims against me that I’m -ist and -ic that’s going to be more difficult.

[skulk]

Huh? So more nonwhite people is a net negative for Australia? How isn't this just bald faced racism?

[mktk1001]

Would you try this constructive-criticism on an ICE agent pointing a gun to your head with no regard to your constitutional rights?

[magicalist]

> This is assigning intent without evidence, as is common in tribal politics

You are calling for constructive discourse and yet your response is an accusation of dishonesty. A non-charged assessment might use the phrase "without presenting evidence".

[thrownthatway]

This is why we can’t have serious discourse with the Left.

Not because we aren’t open to it, but because they insist that if you don’t utter the correct shibboleth you’re not worth talking to.

“Without evidence” vs “without presenting evidence”.

Batshitcrazy.