Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by cassianoleal 32 days ago
What about all the other games with malware, like Denuvo and similar?
3 comments

I recommend installing Linux. If it wont play on Linux even with Proton, you shouldn't give them a single penny.
I agree, although I've made exceptions for a very small number of games with Denuvo (actually, just Hogwarts Legacy, which in hindsight I'm glad I did even though it still hurts my soul a bit) and they can run on Linux (I have nothing else but Linux). It's mostly kernel-level anti-cheat that won't run from what I've read.
If it plays on Linux I don't personally care if its got Denuvo, its isolated by Proton, so not really a big deal. I do think its really pointless, because none of these tools ever truly stop game cheating.
Oh yeah completely agree. They don't even stop warez either as it only takes a little while for it to be broken. Mainly all it does is punish paying users, and cost them sales (from people like me) who don't want the potential headache.
I only game on Linux. I don’t run Windows, period.

I like that it keeps those kinds of malware out of my reach, and I don’t mind skipping games that use them.

I would like for it to go away entirely though. Both because I find it an appalling practice, and because I want more gamers playing more games on Linux.

Gog.com only sells games without DRM.

Most games on itch.io are not DRMed.

"drm is malware" is so 2005.
"We have to stop the nazis" is so 1940s.

"Congress is engaged in a witch hunt" is so 1950s.

"Civil rights should be applied to everyone" is so 1960s.

"Fossil Fuels are destroying the plant" is so 1970s.

"Unregulated free trade is dangerous" is so 1980s.

"The police are out of control and unduly target minorities" is so 1990s.

Something being old doesn't make it less relevant or important.

It means we need to say it louder, because for some reason the point hasn't been made clearly enough yet.

Every day there are new people coming online and/or of age who weren't aware or even alive in 2005. They too need to know that DRM is malware.
"rootkits are malware" is in fact eternal.
Usually when people complain about Denuvo, they're talking about Denuvo Anti-Tamper, which (perhaps surprisingly) is not a rootkit.
When people complain about denuvo rootkits they are complaining about denuvo anti-cheat, which is a rootkit.
Well, Riot Games just today (!) admitted to hard-bricking cheating hardware [1]. This kind of stuff definitely is malware, and your comment aged like milk.

[1] https://videocardz.com/newz/riot-games-on-valorant-dma-cheat...

Malware is deceitful, you're not aware of its presence. Anti-Cheat does what it's promises, and I've personally found Riot fairly transparent regarding Vanguard.

You don't have to play Valorant, but if you do you probably want to play without cheaters. It's either get hated for having cheaters (like CS2) or get hated for having invasive Anti-Cheat (Valorant). There's no third option.

So if malware announces itself, it is no longer malware but anticheat?

"If you do not wire the money, the anticheat will activate and delete all your data"

> So if malware announces itself, it is no longer malware but anticheat?

If it announces itself after installation it would obviously be malware. But if the software does exactly what the user expects it to do, and the user installs it with consent, why would it be malware?

Otherwise BitLocker or a disk eraser would be malware just because it performs a destructive action.

Wikipedia goes by the same definition, it's harmful software that operates without the owners knowledge.

It may seem like a weird hill to die on, but calling every Anti-Cheat or DRM a "rootkit" or malware kind of takes any meaning away from the term. And is also just misinformative to the workings of DRM and Anti-Cheat.

> It may seem like a weird hill to die on, but calling every Anti-Cheat or DRM a "rootkit" or malware kind of takes any meaning away from the term.

It's not the first time that DRM has caused damage. The Valorant one is particularly bad as no user should expect hardware damage or data loss even if they cheat, but I still 'member Sony's DRM that was a legitimate rootkit [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

It's not a hard-brick. Reinstalling Windows fixes it.
You are confusing drm with anti cheats.

In any case, good for Riot, and good especially for their players!

anti-cheat is not perfect. they will brick a legitimate user's pc. that is the opposite of "good for their players".

and even if someone is cheating on a riot game, bricking their pc is obviously fucked, and will end up biting riot in the ass (i.e. not good for riot, either).

Which anti-cheat has bricked users' PCs? The Riot example above specifically targets DMA cards (cheating hardware) which no legitimate user will have.
>Which anti-cheat has bricked users' PCs?

the one we're talking about, where riot tweeted "congrats on your $6k paperweights".

>The Riot example above specifically targets DMA cards (cheating hardware) which no legitimate user will have.

you can play league/valorant legitimately, be using dma for whatever else, and apparently riot will still gladly brick your pc.

you apparently don't even need the games currently installed! if you have vanguard leftover from months ago when you did play, remove all the games, and then decide to tinker around with dma for fun/learning/who cares, riot will still come after you, despite not even playing their games.

even if that seems unlikely, refer back to sentence #2 of my comment: "and even if someone is cheating on a riot game, bricking their pc is obviously fucked, and will end up biting riot in the ass (i.e. not good for riot, either)."

No confusion at all. Same unacceptable "we own your machine now" nonsense.
A saying being old doesn’t make it invalid anyway. What’s your point?
My point is that this saying is the tritest of the trite, and therefore not worth being posted.