[angoragoats]

Twitter is a haven for unabashed white supremacy and other unacceptable ideology, owned and run by a fascist who holds similar views. If one uses it, one is, at minimum, expressing that they tolerate those views.

Calling the site and its users out is not out of place, and I will continue to do so until it is no longer such a place or it is gone, whether that happens in 6 months or 50 years.

[pixel_popping]

> If one uses it, one is, at minimum, expressing that they tolerate those views.

Literally not, I disagree with many takes of HN users and I don't "tolerate those views", but I'm please to read those alternative views, if you don't read the alternative opinions, how can you know what's going-on? How can you understand the psyche behind those individuals?

I also use Reddit and Youtube and other platforms which have despicable content, social media have million of users, you don't have to tolerate anything to continue using it. It's a big world.

Discord (Instagram as well) has literal terrorists on it with groups promoting sales of weapon with onion links and vouched sellers and stealth methods and and so-on, I don't really see the million of gamers tolerating this, maybe they are just able to continue enjoying a technology without thinking about the politics behind it? Code != Politics.

[angoragoats]

> Literally not, I disagree with many takes of HN users and I don't "tolerate those views"

The difference between HN (and Reddit, Youtube, Discord, Instagram) vs Twitter is that none of those other sites are owned and run by a Nazi for the express purpose of providing a space for Nazis and people holding similar viewpoints to spread their hate. It is exactly the virtual equivalent of the Nazi bar.

> I'm please to read those alternative views, if you don't read the alternative opinions, how can you know what's going-on? How can you understand the psyche behind those individuals?

You're pleased to read the views of Nazis? Personally, I don't want or care to understand the psyche of Nazis. I want them to be shunned by society, and to crawl back into the holes they came from.

> maybe they are just able to continue enjoying a technology without thinking about the politics behind it?

If someone regularly visits the Nazi bar to have a beer, and is aware of its status as a Nazi bar and is still OK with that, they are a Nazi. I'm sorry that it sounds like you don't like this, but no amount of discussion of "but what about free speech" or "let's stay away from politics" is going to change it.

> Code != Politics

Hard disagree. Plus, equating white supremacy and other abnormal extremist views with "politics" only serves to minimize the real effect that spreading those views has on innocent people.

[pixel_popping]

I don't really understand where you see all those Nazis or supremacists on X, I mean unless you explicitly check it for political and search this kind of content which seems to be a minority on it, I'm not in the US so maybe timelines are different, but literally I have barely seen any sort of extremist content, to the contrary on Reddit and Discord where it's an insane volume of hate and violence.

I get your point but I disagree, we could think the same about drug addicts, but you wouldn't solve the problem if you don't genuinely understand their point of view, how do you want to solve school shootings if you don't understand where they are coming from (I'm not supporting this kind of degeneracy, but I'm interested into knowing the "why", even if it's non-sense).

I disagree with the Nazi bar, you can do tourism in China while not supporting the CCP, you can do tourism in the Philippines while not condoning mass killing, I don't really see the direct correlation, you can buy a phone or clothes or whatever knowing someone was exploited for it and you actively know it and still proceed with the purchase, drawing an arbitrary but inconsistent line is a bit weird.

It does absolutely not make me a Nazi if I visit a "Nazi-owned bar", I've visited gay bars, it doesn't make me gay :/

[angoragoats]

> I disagree with the Nazi bar, you can do tourism in China while not supporting the CCP, you can do tourism in the Philippines while not condoning mass killing, I don't really see the direct correlation, you can buy a phone or clothes or whatever knowing someone was exploited for it and you actively know it and still proceed with the purchase

Personally I wouldn't do any of these things, but regardless, they're not the same. Hate speech on Twitter has increased following Musk's acquisition, and the company has done nothing to curb it. The purpose of Twitter is to spread extremist views; that is now why it exists. I'm sure it'd be possible to meet some great people and have intellectual conversations at a Nazi bar too, but that's not why it exists.

> It does absolutely not make me a Nazi if I visit a "Nazi-owned bar"

I said Nazi bar, not Nazi-owned bar. Please don't put things in quotation marks that I didn't say. And it absolutely does make you a Nazi if you knowingly and regularly visit the Nazi bar.

[pixel_popping]

You wouldn't buy cheap clothes? I do, I don't feel like I'm "exploiting" people when I do, there is layers to it.

I don't know if hate speech has increased or not since Musk acquisition to be honest, but I however do see a lot of one way ragebait/hate... speech toward him and its companies, I rarely see a constructive discussion around him here on HN at least, it's straight hate (aka Hate speech).

> The purpose of Twitter is to spread extremist views;

I really don't see it that way, a lot of my surrounding is using X, not even once we've discussed Nazi or even nazi-related things or even political things on it. I mean, why would jews and middle east even be using X that much if it was its purpose? Aren't they the ones affected by this kind of point of view? It's literally heavily mixed in term of demographics... and there is much more non-white on it than whites (it seems relevant) working at X or even using it.

Actually even in the Nazi bar example altogether (even if it's Owner + Everyone inside) I would still not think I'm a Nazi from being there, it's literally the same example as the Gay Bar (even Owner + Everyone inside), where does that make me Gay to be there? You could go there by curiosity, because you like the actual place without judging the people around and so-on. I've done so, afaik I'm not gay.

Are you a criminal if you listen to "criminal" music? Are you muslim if you read extensively the Quran? I consume a lot of content I completely disagree with, I really don't see how it makes me side with them.

[angoragoats]

> I don't know if hate speech has increased or not since Musk acquisition to be honest

It has, feel free to educate yourself.

> I rarely see a constructive discussion around him here on HN at least, it's straight hate (aka Hate speech).

This is not what hate speech means in the common usage of the term.

> I really don't see it that way

I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

> it's literally the same example as the Gay Bar

If it was a gay supremacy bar where everyone hung out to talk about exterminating anyone who isn't gay, then it would be the same. Otherwise, it is very, very different.

> Are you a criminal if you listen to "criminal" music?

I'm not sure what criminal music is, but probably not.

> Are you muslim if you read extensively the Quran?

Nope, not necessarily.

But if you regularly hang out at the Nazi bar, you are a Nazi. The problem is the paradox of tolerance; views such as Nazism that attempt to violently suppress those based on, for example, their genetic or ethnic characteristics cannot be tolerated, under any circumstances. We (the world) fought a whole war about this approximately 80 years ago, and I would prefer not to have to learn that lesson through warfare again.