[angoragoats]

> Literally not, I disagree with many takes of HN users and I don't "tolerate those views"

The difference between HN (and Reddit, Youtube, Discord, Instagram) vs Twitter is that none of those other sites are owned and run by a Nazi for the express purpose of providing a space for Nazis and people holding similar viewpoints to spread their hate. It is exactly the virtual equivalent of the Nazi bar.

> I'm please to read those alternative views, if you don't read the alternative opinions, how can you know what's going-on? How can you understand the psyche behind those individuals?

You're pleased to read the views of Nazis? Personally, I don't want or care to understand the psyche of Nazis. I want them to be shunned by society, and to crawl back into the holes they came from.

> maybe they are just able to continue enjoying a technology without thinking about the politics behind it?

If someone regularly visits the Nazi bar to have a beer, and is aware of its status as a Nazi bar and is still OK with that, they are a Nazi. I'm sorry that it sounds like you don't like this, but no amount of discussion of "but what about free speech" or "let's stay away from politics" is going to change it.

> Code != Politics

Hard disagree. Plus, equating white supremacy and other abnormal extremist views with "politics" only serves to minimize the real effect that spreading those views has on innocent people.

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I don't really understand where you see all those Nazis or supremacists on X, I mean unless you explicitly check it for political and search this kind of content which seems to be a minority on it, I'm not in the US so maybe timelines are different, but literally I have barely seen any sort of extremist content, to the contrary on Reddit and Discord where it's an insane volume of hate and violence.

I get your point but I disagree, we could think the same about drug addicts, but you wouldn't solve the problem if you don't genuinely understand their point of view, how do you want to solve school shootings if you don't understand where they are coming from (I'm not supporting this kind of degeneracy, but I'm interested into knowing the "why", even if it's non-sense).

I disagree with the Nazi bar, you can do tourism in China while not supporting the CCP, you can do tourism in the Philippines while not condoning mass killing, I don't really see the direct correlation, you can buy a phone or clothes or whatever knowing someone was exploited for it and you actively know it and still proceed with the purchase, drawing an arbitrary but inconsistent line is a bit weird.

It does absolutely not make me a Nazi if I visit a "Nazi-owned bar", I've visited gay bars, it doesn't make me gay :/

[angoragoats]

> I disagree with the Nazi bar, you can do tourism in China while not supporting the CCP, you can do tourism in the Philippines while not condoning mass killing, I don't really see the direct correlation, you can buy a phone or clothes or whatever knowing someone was exploited for it and you actively know it and still proceed with the purchase

Personally I wouldn't do any of these things, but regardless, they're not the same. Hate speech on Twitter has increased following Musk's acquisition, and the company has done nothing to curb it. The purpose of Twitter is to spread extremist views; that is now why it exists. I'm sure it'd be possible to meet some great people and have intellectual conversations at a Nazi bar too, but that's not why it exists.

> It does absolutely not make me a Nazi if I visit a "Nazi-owned bar"

I said Nazi bar, not Nazi-owned bar. Please don't put things in quotation marks that I didn't say. And it absolutely does make you a Nazi if you knowingly and regularly visit the Nazi bar.

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You wouldn't buy cheap clothes? I do, I don't feel like I'm "exploiting" people when I do, there is layers to it.

I don't know if hate speech has increased or not since Musk acquisition to be honest, but I however do see a lot of one way ragebait/hate... speech toward him and its companies, I rarely see a constructive discussion around him here on HN at least, it's straight hate (aka Hate speech).

> The purpose of Twitter is to spread extremist views;

I really don't see it that way, a lot of my surrounding is using X, not even once we've discussed Nazi or even nazi-related things or even political things on it. I mean, why would jews and middle east even be using X that much if it was its purpose? Aren't they the ones affected by this kind of point of view? It's literally heavily mixed in term of demographics... and there is much more non-white on it than whites (it seems relevant) working at X or even using it.

Actually even in the Nazi bar example altogether (even if it's Owner + Everyone inside) I would still not think I'm a Nazi from being there, it's literally the same example as the Gay Bar (even Owner + Everyone inside), where does that make me Gay to be there? You could go there by curiosity, because you like the actual place without judging the people around and so-on. I've done so, afaik I'm not gay.

Are you a criminal if you listen to "criminal" music? Are you muslim if you read extensively the Quran? I consume a lot of content I completely disagree with, I really don't see how it makes me side with them.

[angoragoats]

> I don't know if hate speech has increased or not since Musk acquisition to be honest

It has, feel free to educate yourself.

> I rarely see a constructive discussion around him here on HN at least, it's straight hate (aka Hate speech).

This is not what hate speech means in the common usage of the term.

> I really don't see it that way

I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

> it's literally the same example as the Gay Bar

If it was a gay supremacy bar where everyone hung out to talk about exterminating anyone who isn't gay, then it would be the same. Otherwise, it is very, very different.

> Are you a criminal if you listen to "criminal" music?

I'm not sure what criminal music is, but probably not.

> Are you muslim if you read extensively the Quran?

Nope, not necessarily.

But if you regularly hang out at the Nazi bar, you are a Nazi. The problem is the paradox of tolerance; views such as Nazism that attempt to violently suppress those based on, for example, their genetic or ethnic characteristics cannot be tolerated, under any circumstances. We (the world) fought a whole war about this approximately 80 years ago, and I would prefer not to have to learn that lesson through warfare again.

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> I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

Literally I'm not even remotely participating in this kind of content nor anyone I personally know, so how can it be "the truth"? Literally a TON of arab users on it, that doesn't make sense :/

> If it was a gay supremacy bar where everyone hung out to talk about exterminating anyone who isn't gay, then it would be the same.

Is there really anyone on X saying that kind of extreme statements? Do you have any source to back it up as in anyone that thrown statements that bad (extermination and such)? Except when accidentally stumbling on terro forums or this kind of garbage when using Tor or whatever, I've never encounter stuff like that on X, I mean you would be genuinely actively seeking it to find that, it's also available on Google, Mastodon and so-on if you look for it of course as the web is vast.

[angoragoats]

> Literally I'm not even remotely participating in this kind of content

Whether or not you're seeing posts from racists doesn't change the purpose of the site. One of the purposes of the site, as stated directly by its owner, has been to spread more right wing viewpoints. Many of those viewpoints have turned out to be extreme and violent, and the owner of the site has plainly stated that he will not remove those viewpoints.

You're welcome to do your own research to establish any of the above. When I say "Twitter is the Nazi bar" I'm not basing it on what I see (I, of course, don't have a Twitter account), but on what the site's owner has stated and what has borne out to be true based on research.

Real people, innocent of any wrongdoing, are being harmed by views being spread on sites like Twitter, and the people running the site condone it. If you care about that, the moral action to take is to stop using it. You are also welcome to not care, but implicit in that decision is that you also don't care about those real people being harmed.