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by int32_64 33 days ago
There's no insurance scheme the IRGC can concoct that protects against the US navy hitting your rudder with a 20mm gun.
16 comments

Military history is full of quotes like "war is too important to be left to the generals". When you put people who focus on technical matters in charge, they often make poor decisions, as they are not looking at the big picture.

The question is not about whether the US can blockade the Hormuz Strait but who gets blamed for the blockade. Iran is messaging that it is making serious attempts to reopen the strait, while China and Russia are probably reinforcing the message. When people around the world suffer from the consequences of the blockade, they are more likely to blame America for their troubles. Or at least that's what Iran is trying to achieve.

Iran doesn’t have to do anything, really. The Hormuz blockade is entirely on the moronic US, their feeble leader as well as their utterly corrupt and incompetent politicians.

A toxic mix of staggering arrogance, moral bankruptcy, a lack of strategic thinking, non-existing historical awareness and a desperate need to divert attention because of the Epstein files.

Try debating a MAGA supporter. The stupidity is astounding.

> because of the Epstein files.

> The stupidity is astounding.

They "released the files" and handed out binders of Epstein documents to influencers. There was a ton of posting as though something monumental had happened. They were entirely comprised pre-existing publicly released information.

That's how much the admin respects the intelligence of its base and that's how much its loudest supporters think things through.

> They were entirely comprised pre-existing publicly released information.

This is not true. This is in fact straightforwardly false.

You and the parent may be talking about two different events.

There was an initial release of "binders" to known rightwing influencers in a choreographed photo event. It was a predominantly bullshit release that pissed off the conspiratorial wing of MAGA and the Epstein Republicans (Massie et al). This happened in early 2025.

The blowback from this event resulted in Congress passing the Epstein Transparency Act in Nov. 2025.

The biggest dump of files came after this (tho congressmen are claiming most files are still unreleased) , which is what you might be referring to.

But feel free to argue your point either way.

Most have not been released and they didn’t even pay lip service to the ‘unredacted’ requirement.

The truth will come out eventually. When the US finally realizes how cringe their awful leader is. Like when you finally realize how your friends thought about your partner after the breakup.

You'd think the Epstein class would get along better with Iran, seeing as you can get 'temporary' marriages to underage girls in Iran. (google 'iran child bride' and 'iran temporary marriage').
Why would anyone post this comment?
To highlight that both sides are horrific when it comes to the topic being discussed and that both sides need leadership to be changed?

Do you not think horrible behaviors should be highlighted/called out/brought up? Or just that US leadership Epstein connections should be?

"both sides are horrific" is convenient, but only one keep invading and bombing others since decades
On the hierarchy of disagreement, attacking the character of either side is the lowest form of intelligent commentary you can make: https://paulgraham.com/disagree.html

> Do you not think horrible behaviors should be highlighted/called out/brought up? Or just that US leadership Epstein connections should be?

If non-sequiturs are your best argument, then yes, you you have nothing to contribute by participating in good-faith speculation. Iranian child marriages do not reframe the "Tail that Wags the Dog" scenario in Washington. It's textbook whataboutism that you failed to elevate into meaningful commentary, making you look suspiciously disengaged.

Iran didn’t start a war to distract from the Epstein files (I don’t agree the U.S. did that either, but you have implicitly accepted the premise, and since you have, it should be obvious that in the context of this war, the relevant information is whether the pedophilia loving govt started a war to distract its public or not, not whether either govt is pedophilia loving).
Remember when MAGA was about isolationism?
Where did they manufacture those hats?
I can see how this is confusing. The American foreign policy establishment's consensus definition of "isolationism" is something like "not invading or planning to invade other countries", it doesn't mean not trading with them.

For Americans, not bombing something in Asia at least every couple of months is considered an isolationist tendency. And of course Central and South America don't even count, that's our "back yard" after all.

No government have accepted Iranian tolls so far, that is just not going to fly ever. If every country controlling a strait started taking out such tolls that would cause much worse issues than we are seeing currently, nobody will have that.
No government has accepted Iranian tolls so far, but some shippers sure have; ships have been passing through the strait. Those shipments go on to countries with governments. I don't think you can actually know that there wasn't government support for any of those payments so far.

And cryptocurrency should be even better for deniability. In reality it would be a really good idea for certain governments that rely heavily on Middle Eastern oil (e.g. Philippines) to pay fees in the short term. More than a month ago the Philippines was already claiming to have "safe and preferential access", if that involves money they'll pay it. (https://www.rappler.com/business/philippine-flagged-ships-sa...)

You think people care? The average guy on the street doesn't even think about the fact that part of the price they paid for their lunch went to Panama for the use of a canal.
The US fundamentally wants the oil to flow globally.

Its secondary blockade of the Strait seems to be driven by optics and PR rather than strategic value.

No, they don't: they want allied (UAE, Saudi) oil to flow, but not Iranian oil. The US is embargoing most of the Far East from essential fuel.
It's a pressure campaign to get a nuclear deal. NYT reported Iran already offered to open the strait, end hostilities, and negotiate a nuclear deal later, but the US rejected that offer as they want to pressure them into giving up their uranium.

Now Iran is demanding money in exchange for the uranium which is the primary roadblock.

Nobody credible said or believed Iran was making nuclear weapons. Iran had made it a fatwa against the Islamic law to develop such weapons and Obama had referenced that. They also dont believe bolivian fishermen could reach the US with stocks of drugs, they dont believe venezuela’s president was a hidden drug kingpin, and they also dont believe that Cuba is a credible threat that needs to be blockaded to the stone age.

These are power plays to signal that world dominance is not decaying but in case of Iran it has backfired and pushes China’s narrative as a pillar of stability.

The strongest case for developing nuclear weapons is our lack of invasions of nuclear powers.

It's funny how he tore up a nuclear arms embargo / agreement and then acted as though they (Iran) were a threat that couldn't be tolerated.

Common saying: "They sell us the sickness and then sell us the cure."

Nuclear weapons have been a strictly self defense capability since 1945 I don't know why the White House is crying about Iran getting them.
> I don't know why the White House is crying about Iran getting them.

How does one not see a problem with terrorists(i.e. the Islamic regime in Iran) getting nuclear weapons?

Because Iran is an extremist theocracy who literally regards USA as Satan and openly calls for its destruction. Pretty obvious.
> Nobody credible said or believed Iran was making nuclear weapons.

Then why were they enriching uranium to levels well above what is needed for civilian purposes? You simply don't do that unless you intend to make nuclear weapons at some point.

> Iran had made it a fatwa against the Islamic law to develop such weapons and Obama had referenced that.

Iran obviously has the ability to lie, and regularly does so.

Many countries have nuclear power without any enrichment capability. Iran could try not being a pariah state and buy enriched uranium like many countries do. The only real reason to spend so much money and endure so much hardships for uranium enrichment is if they wanted at least the option to make nuclear weapons.
They definitely wanted the option, that’s indisputable really.
There is still lots of evidence that Iran started enriching uranium towards weapons grade over the past decade. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64810145 Largely a legacy of Trump's sanctions failing to get a nuclear deal the first term and back firing. You'd have to be naive to think they don't want a bomb in the first place before that though.

Saddam played the same game where they pretended they just wanted nuclear for energy, even though they were a petrol state... which is why in 1981 Iran helped bomb Iraq's reactors (where Iran teamed up with Israel to do so) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

If Iran didn't believe Iraq's peaceful nuclear intentions, I'm not sure why anyone would believe Iran then buying tons of uranium from Russia was any different. Not to mention building underground lairs to enrich it while also building ICBMs.

The best way to thread the needle I can see was that maintaining highly enriched uranium was a deterrance/bargaining strategy. Doesn't break the fatwa but sends a message. Obviously it wasn't successful, they should have either built a bomb or not bothered, in hindsight.
> Obviously it wasn't successful, they should have either built a bomb or not bothered, in hindsight.

The JCPOA obviated the need for a nuke. It was a reasonable assumption that the US would honor its side of the agreement under the doctrine of continuity. Even in hindsight, you cannot have productive diplomacy without good faith

> Doesn't break the fatwa but sends a message. Obviously it wasn't successful, they should have either built a bomb or not bothered, in hindsight.

I think Israel and probably the US interpreted this tactic as Iran stalling until they Iran had the technology to build a nuclear ICBM.

It's a pressure campaign to get the Iranian leadership in one place so that Israel can bomb them again. There was a deal, the president cancelled it in his previous term.
> Nobody credible said or believed Iran was making nuclear weapons.

Tell that to Iran's former parliamentary deputy speaker who said 'When we began our nuclear activity, our goal was indeed to build a bomb. There is no need to beat around the bush.'[1]

[1] https://www.dailymail.com/sciencetech/article-15732615/iran-...

to be fair, I bet more human knows that USA is much more dangerous to the world "order" than Iran having a nuclear weapon (Pakistan and even Israel has it, so why not Iran and Mozambic too?)
> so why not Iran and Mozambic too?

Iran funds terrorism and conflict that impacts nearly every Muslim country around them and also in US, europe, canada, australia etc

If you want to build a bomb for sovereignty's sake, don't become an international pariah that openly and explicitly attacks wealthier and democratic world powers while you're doing it.

Iran's has demonstrated some of the worst strategic planning over the past two decades. Their economic planning has been just as bad

Is NYT even a credible source these days?
As opposed to the orange clown who changes his stance daily and sometimes hourly? Yeah, of course.
as opposed to media that don't tow the official US foreign policy line, and don't uncritically parrot the official US narrative?
Anything that got us into this mess should be questioned.
They don't seem that bad. Trump shouting fake news whenever they say something he's not keen on doesn't necessarily make them non credible.

Looking on Wikipedia for NYT controversies it has them saying killing Palestinians may be bad and saying sex change ops for kids may be bad which don't seem especially terrible positions.

Just wait for CENTCOM bulletin with their USDC blockade insurance address
You mean that these mafia style insurances are a joke, but free (as in safe and not taxed) access to the seas is something many wars have been fought over. "Insurance" selling by navies was the norm until WW1 at least.
Hah, far more likely that it would be $TRUMP or $PATRIOT shitcoins. Gotta skim somehow.
bc1qxy2kgdytzdonaldjlostiranwartrump
A Iran drone then bombing UAE's oil infrastructure as payback?
They are already doing that so it wouldn't change anything.
So.... just fuck the world economy out of national american embarrassment?
pretty much
No they are not right now, otherwise we would have full news every day of it. Defense rockets for stuff like Patriot ran out, those systems are trivial to overwhelm and deplete in the age of cheap drones and become useless quickly.

Same for the major airports, they keep working, people keep flying to the asia, albeit in less numbers.

>No they are not right now, otherwise we would have full news every day of it.

Yesterday Iran stuck a nuclear plant with a drone, and launched them at other targets as well. And there is news on it even...

https://apnews.com/article/iran-us-uae-nuclear-drones-71e7e5...

UAE is firing weapons at Iran's oil infrastructure.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-u-a-e-has-been-secretly-car...

Just to be clear, Iran has been accused of the attack.
Yea there is. It's called "nuclear weapons."

Why you'd want to play this 'tough guy' game in the era of the Internet is wholly beyond me. You have a fantastically well outfitted military that in the absence of diplomacy stands a really good chance at getting us all killed.

Jingoism is a mind poison.

A combination of enough insurance to make it worth the time of the owner + offer the workers a generous amount to their next of kin could make it worth it. Being turned into minced meat might be worth it for some people if it means their families become rich.
The US begged, like a dog.
Exactly. The US just announces that they will take any vessel that pays for transit. So, what happens then? Any vessel that goes through and the IRGC doesn't shoot them, the US seizes. So, no one pays since they can't pay for successful transit. The fun game is that all the vessels just go at once. Any that the IRGC doesn't shoot the US takes. Any that it does shoot sink. So, no transit. Unless IRGC doesn't shoot at all, in which case everyone gets out of there with just one vessel paying the ransom. Ultimately this doesn't work for the IRGC as the US is far more capable of closing the strait than Iran is.

The US can also fuck with Iran by getting slight cooperation from ships in the Gulf of Oman by getting some small inflatable boats with remote control and AIS transmitters on them. Put the boat in the water next to a ship, turn of the ship's AIS, turn on the boats AIS, and send the boat through. Send hundreds of them. IRGC won't know what to shoot at or will expose their positions by firing at a rubber raft.

This is some wacky races shit that boils down to:

1. US fucks up by engaging Iran, Iran closes strait.

2. US fucks up the negotiations and fails to reopen the strait.

3. US decides to try and rescue its initial war goals, through a mutual blockade with Iran, starts sinking the very vessels it demands Iran gives passage to.

Does Mutley get a medal?

Or they'll use a pair of binoculars (or a drone with a camera) to ignore the decoys and shoot at the actual ship...
The horizon at sea level is about 3 miles. The strait of Hormuz is 35+ miles wide. Any mechanism used to get around this would be detectable and could be attacked with relatively inexpensive ordinance.
About 20 meter elevation would be needed to cover the navigable part of the strait. So, a couple of tall ladders?
Look at the map. They have mountains. Not much rain/fog in that area to block the sight lines. Maybe haze.
If you phrase it as an "insurance scheme", then sure they can? All insurance schemes work by giving you money if bad stuff you don't control happens. I'm sure they could.

They probably won't.

US Navy has shown particular strength in this conflict against Iran, sitting in the international waters many (many, many) miles away and chillin :)
Thats untrue, they sank the unarmed Iranian vessel Dena after it attended the International Fleet Review 2026 naval exercise hosted by India.

It goes without saying that many are saying it was one of the greatest naval battles of all time.

Whats weak about doing the smart thing?
American destroyers and aircraft carriers have been chased away from the Strait multiple times now.

Hilariously the USS George HW Bush had to go the long way around Africa rather than risk transiting the Bab El Mandeb after the Houthis defeated the US Navy last year.

In what way were they chased away? Iran tried to sink them and didn't hit any shots, and many on Iran's side died trying. Many IRGC soldiers dying and not even scratching the paint on US vessels doesn't show US to be weak.

> Hilariously the USS George HW Bush had to go the long way around Africa rather than risk transiting the Bab El Mandeb after the Houthis defeated the US Navy last year.

Valuing the lives of your crewmen and avoid terrorists is bad how? USA not wanting their soldiers to die is weak? Would you want more deaths on US side to show strength?

USA can win this war with barely any casualties, why would you not do that? And USA being able to do this with barely any losses shows tremendous strength to me, Iran was more powerful than Ukraine but USA could establish aerial superiority immediately with no losses, this is so much stronger than what Russia displayed.

> USA can win this war with barely any casualties

What do you mean by "win"? What strategic goals can the US achieve in this war? We're at a point where merely achieving status quo ante bellum--i.e., Iran doesn't charge for passage through the Strait of Hormuz--seems to require giving concessions elsewhere.

In many ways, this looks like the American version of Pearl Harbor--a stunning tactical victory that is simultaneously a crushing strategic loss.

The primary US strategic war goal was to slow down Iran's nuclear weapons program. That was not a smart reason to launch an attack, but the attack was at least somewhat successful in achieving the goal. Much of Iran's critical equipment is now destroyed or buried, so from the US perspective that's at least a minor, temporary strategic gain. I'm not claiming that any of this was a good idea or that it will work out well in the long run but let's be clear about the real goals.
> We're at a point where merely achieving status quo ante bellum--i.e., Iran doesn't charge for passage through the Strait of Hormuz--seems to require giving concessions elsewhere.

No, there is no reality where the world will let Iran take tolls here, no matter what happens that part wont happen. The world depends too much on straits being open and toll free, if you let that slide once it will be done by others and that will break down the entire world order.

Given how expensive they are they were presumably supposed to do more than primarily stay out of range. There are less expensive ways of doing that.
They block Iranian ports so Iran can no longer export oil, that is doing a lot.
We are quite incapable of dealing with a mass attack by Iranian small boats with bombs.
They are not, they updated their tactics to account for that so they destroyed a lot of Iranian small boats with bombs trying to attack the vessels. If they were incapable of countering that we would have seen American casualties in these skirmishes but only Iranians died.
Blowing shit up and killing people isn't winning. Winning is getting what you want strategically and operationally. Unless you are 12, most outcomes aren't just big explosions.
Not one U.S. ship was damaged by the Houthis. Meanwhile airstrikes took out a ton of Houthi assets.
Americans always say they are winning. Nobody believes it.
I guess, you know nowadays it seems like if an enemy scratches one of our ships it is called a total loss for the U.S. meanwhile other nations have their entire air force taken out along with all of their targeting systems and most of their missile supplies and even their heads of state are taken out by F35s or arrested by special forces and somehow that is called "losing" by armchair internet dwellers.
> Hilariously the USS George HW Bush had to go the long way around Africa rather than risk transiting the Bab El Mandeb after the Houthis defeated the US Navy last year.

The ship went the long way around because why risk being attacked by missiles? It's less that the US Navy "was defeated", which itself is a plainly asinine comment which only serves a purpose of trying to incite others, and more so a practical safety concern.

But if you really want to argue that the US Navy was defeated, I would submit our next step should be to utilize nuclear weapons on Yemen and destroy the Houthis. That way you can't make these claims and we'll see who really is defeating who :)

Starting a war and then not fighting in it is pretty stupid honestly. Either fight or dont start a pointless war
Everyone has a plan until they get punched on the mouth. The plan was a quick decapitation strike, perhaps followed by a Venezuela-like arrangement.
There was no plan. The plan of Israel was to trick the incompetent leadership of the US into a war with Iran, which they did.
You mean smart things like going into a war with zero plans beyond the first day, bombing girl's schools, then being forced to run away by a country whose entire GDP is less than your military budget?
I would have never realised that things would have taken such an Onion worthy scatological turn.

s/n/d/6

Tell all those ships sailing to China that.

And sadly, $6 gas will collapse the U.S. Navy’s will and effort in weeks.

There’s no assurance the US army can concoct that protects against the IRGC mines.

Guess who lost more?

China can and not with its military.
You realize that America "in theory" wants ships to transit the strait right? The US blockade is self-defeating.

You can't block the strait if we block the strait! lmao

I think this is incorrect. The point is to show that if Iran does this, then they will not be the only ones that can do it. The last thing that should happen is to reward Iran for rent seeking on the Strait. Others can also seek rent then, and the whole strait gets shut down..which encompassed around 90% of all Iranian oil exports, which in turn was about 90% of their economic exports.
There is truth to this but it's basically we'll hurt ourselves to hurt you more. This is a lose-lose strategy.
I am not sure if in the long term it is our interest to allow Iran to extract rent from this trade route, which would only strengthen China. It seems to me that the hurt is spread around the world quite widely, with inordinate impacts on Iran and China, not the U.S. or Europe [1].

[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charted-oil-trade-through-t...

I have nothing against china, and I have no interest in the companies operating from our soil. They certainly view us with contempt.
I am talking about geopolitical security.
It's not really in my interest for a cabal of pedophiles to win this one. I dispute the conflation of the interests of the capitalist class with the american people.
Wow. You know, I think Trump is dangerous to our Republic, almost certainly committing graft and fraud using the Office of the President for personal gain, probably a rapist and maybe a pedophile. I don't know. But that has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with our national security and the geopolitical reality of the Russian-Iranian-Chinese-North Korean Axis and the threat that axis poses to the democratic free-world. Separate your concerns, walk and chew gum, and face the real world.
Why is it so bad that countries want rent over the areas they control?
It's not a matter of good or bad. Innocent passage through national waters (including straits) without paying tolls has been a fundamental principle of maritime law for a long time. Allowing Iran to charge a toll for passage through the Strait of Hormuz would set a bad precedent and encourage other countries to do the same. Iran might be able to get some of the weaker countries to pay up but the USA has no incentive to agree; more likely they would just continue the blockade, and possibly impose secondary sanctions against any entities that send money to Iran.
Yeah, and "don't launch wars of aggression or bomb girls' schools on a whim" has been a principle for about the same amount of time.

Iran has been pretty clear that they'll open the strait if the USA lifts the blockade. How can we complain about fair passage while maintaining a blockade ourselves?

Straits have always been points of local control. This isn't new. We will have to pay if we want to play. For all people bluster about the US being exempt, I don't see what leverage we can use that isn't more expensive than just paying up. Marinetime law is only as meaningful as can be enforced.
Bullshit. The right of innocent passage has long applied to straits. But as a practical matter very few US flagged merchant vessels even go through there, so if anyone actually pays it's going to be someone else.
I think US established a naval blockage against Cuba and other countries multiple times in history, blocking passage of ships in international waters.
.
What's your point? Innocent passage never applied to artificial canals. You seem to be unclear on the basics of maritime law.
The US is blockading the Iranian coast, not the entirety of the Strait.
The reason the US is blockading is because Iran is only partially blockading it. If Iran wasn't blockading at all then America wouldn't either. But it's pretty clear that "only shops whose countries pay a lot of money to Iran" would help Iran.
Why would the US navy be attacking ships in the strait of hormuz
They are doing this because they blockaded Iran.
To prevent Iran from controlling it. Of course it’s dumb but this is why.
because Baron trump has a bet on polymarket paying 100:1?
Because Trump said they would. Because he is insane.
Knuckling under to the imperial ambitions of others is always the more sane solution for the slaveminded man.
Sure, but when it happens it's no longer Iran's problem - it's your problem. (And maybe America's problem, unless America gains anything from the global trade burning down.)