[tehjoker]

There is truth to this but it's basically we'll hurt ourselves to hurt you more. This is a lose-lose strategy.

[SubiculumCode]

I am not sure if in the long term it is our interest to allow Iran to extract rent from this trade route, which would only strengthen China. It seems to me that the hurt is spread around the world quite widely, with inordinate impacts on Iran and China, not the U.S. or Europe [1].

[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charted-oil-trade-through-t...

[throwaway27448]

I have nothing against china, and I have no interest in the companies operating from our soil. They certainly view us with contempt.

[SubiculumCode]

I am talking about geopolitical security.

[throwaway27448]

The entire idea that we exist in opposition to china is silly. Geopolitically we stand to thrive in mutual partnership. What other option is there?

But there is certainly no future where China is somehow a junior partner.

[tehjoker]

It's not really in my interest for a cabal of pedophiles to win this one. I dispute the conflation of the interests of the capitalist class with the american people.

[SubiculumCode]

Wow. You know, I think Trump is dangerous to our Republic, almost certainly committing graft and fraud using the Office of the President for personal gain, probably a rapist and maybe a pedophile. I don't know. But that has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with our national security and the geopolitical reality of the Russian-Iranian-Chinese-North Korean Axis and the threat that axis poses to the democratic free-world. Separate your concerns, walk and chew gum, and face the real world.

[nixon_why69]

Those countries are all very different with very different interests in their respective regions. China doesn't care about Ukraine, Russia doesn't care about Taiwan, and both were very muted in their reaction to the attacks on Iran.

The major thing they have in common is not respecting American trade embargoes against themselves, which, of course they don't.

[SubiculumCode]

They had muted (visible) reaction because they could do little about it.

[nixon_why69]

An axis would have shown a lot more solidarity. Hezbollah/Hamas/Iran for example.

[navigate8310]

Their muted reaction is a tacit approval.

[potatototoo99]

The most dangerous thing to your republic is that belief that the whole world needs to be under the boot for its security.

[zzrrt]

> NOTHING to do with our national security

You think a dangerous man at the helm with skeletons in his closet has no effect on national security?

I don't think these concerns are separable. If it weren't for Trump, we probably would not be at war right now. Russia might be more contained by diplomacy and sanctions. If it weren't for Trump's first term, Iran might have been less threatening right now.

And, in some sense, this doesn't matter, because like you say it's the real world and it's happening regardless of why or whose fault it is. I guess I don't want to sign on, even rhetorically on the internet, to destroying this axis that is effectively being created by vile and stupid men because Trump wanted to end the Epstein news cycle.