[joe_mamba]

>I worked at a 50 person company where on my first day I arrived and there was a company logo'd Patagonia jacket on my desk and a small bottle of Veuve Clicquot.

I have the opposite experience and mindset. Companies I worked for would cheap out on salaries, but would buy random knick knacks, jackets, food and drinks for the workers, making the young naive version of me thinking that the company values us even though we were all working below market wages, while the CEO had a massive house and a supercar. Turns out that pizza, coke and a softshell jacket every year is much much cheaper than a yearly wage increase.

Now, I worked for a company who last year cut all the parties, food, drinks, team events, 3 year HW refresh cycle, even the color printers, to ensure we'll still get to keep above average salaries through the tremulous times our industry is going through. Absolute respect. I'd rather have more money to pay the ever increasing bills, than pizzas and a 50 Euro softshell jacket.

>I understand the big tech company mindset of, "If we're paying you half a million dollars a year you should be able to buy your own damn beer", but I think they forget that their employees are human and often it really is the thought that counts.

I wonder if it's possible to tell this story on how dehumanizing it felt to not get free beer with a half million dollar salary, to an average laborer, with a straight face, and expecting any reciprocating "working class" empathy.

[dullcrisp]

The point is it’s not about the monetary value of the perks but about the attitude. If you used to get donuts in the break room on Fridays or get a card on your birthday or whatever, and then management decided you don’t need donuts you’d feel about the same way.

[joe_mamba]

>If you used to get donuts in the break room on Fridays and then management decided you don’t need donuts you’d feel about the same way.

When they took away our daily free biscuits and hazelnut wafers from the break room, I was happy since it meant less sugar and carbs in my diet. My waistline was thankful. I'd rather they cut the junk food than stuff like salaries.

I really don't value small freebies anymore, in fact now it's a red flag to me. A small startup I recently interviewed at proudly showed off the free sweets, drinks fridge and pool table in the break room, but wanted to pay me 50k Euros/year for a senior product owner. They can shove those perks up their bum with that salary.

[dullcrisp]

Okay pretend I said baby carrots if you prefer.

I’m sure some companies do cynically provide perks to try to buy or dazzle people, but I don’t think that that’s the only reason that anyone does it.

[jakeydus]

Let’s say a tin of the queen’s biscuits and hazelnut treacle candies and turkish delight and jupiter jumpers runs 10 quid/day. 250 workdays a year means that one perk cost $2500. I guarantee it had an outsized impact on morale. Company of 100 employees means that cutting that perk earned everyone an extra $25/year. Yay!

[joe_mamba]

> Company of 100 employees means that cutting that perk earned everyone an extra $25/year.

And when you cut other things, the savings add up since such cuts never come alone.

Spending tends to go uncontrolled when the company is in the green, and then multiple cuts come all at once when the company is in the red.

By my former place when sales crashed, they removed the color printers throughout the company(amongst many other things) and only kept the B/W ones and I thought that was stupid until they said it saved 22K/quarter which seemed insanely wasteful. So you see, it's never just 25$/year when the cuts come, it's always a lot more.

[CalRobert]

Honestly as a compulsive eater I hate free food, especially junk food. Similarly I imagine free beer is tough for alcoholics.

[lmm]

> Now, I worked for a company who last year cut all the parties, food, drinks, team events, 3 year HW refresh cycle, even the color printers, to ensure we'll still get to keep above average salaries through the tremulous times our industry is going through. Absolute respect. I'd rather have more money to pay the ever increasing bills, than pizzas and a 50 Euro softshell jacket.

It's amazing how you can do without the necessities of life, provided you have the little luxuries. Yes, money is always good. But a company that isn't willing to spend a small amount of money on "frivolous" things that have a disproportionate impact on the daily experience of working for them is either an ineffective company, or one that genuinely doesn't value its employees.

> I wonder if it's possible to tell this story on how dehumanizing it felt to not get free beer with a half million dollar salary, to an average laborer, with a straight face, and expecting any reciprocating "working class" empathy.

Oh look, now the mask comes off.

[joe_mamba]

>It's amazing how you can do without the necessities of life, provided you have the little luxuries.

No, I need good shelter and top end medical care, more than I need a pizza party with co-workers after work. I'm not 17 anymore to think unlimited fast food and Mountain Dew is the most amazing thing in life.

> But a company that isn't willing to spend a small amount of money on "frivolous" things

This is ZIRP VC funded bay area tech bro logic, who thinks money is infinite.

The problem with uncontrolled endless "small amounts of frivolous things" is that when you're a large company, it keeps ballooning adding up over time, to eventually enormous costs, adding to the cost of doing business which could just go to employee wages instead or discounts to customers to stay competitive. If your company industry is hit hard now (like mine was), by global events, you gotta cut all that if you want to keep people employed and survive as a company.

>Oh look, now the mask comes off.

What mask. Can you be more vague?

[superfrank]

First, I want to fully acknowledge that these are tech bro problems that barely register in the grand scheme of things. I spent the first half of my adult life working minimum wage service industry jobs and more of my social circle than not are not in tech, so I fully get how entitled this sounds to anyone outside of big tech.

With that out of the way, I think you misinterpreted my comment a bit. I wasn't saying that want a nice jacket and a small bottle of Veuve over a decent salary. I was saying that the fact that they took time to do something a little bit special and unique created a positive memory.

I think if I give slightly contrasting stories it'll illustrate my point. At the company I talked about that gave me the Veuve bottle on the first day, the Patagonia jacket that I got was the same one the CEO had and regularly wore. I also learned later when I found a box of small Veuve bottles in a storage closet that the CEO chose that brand because he personally liked Veuve for special occasions. Whether intended or not, I remember feeling valued because it didn't feel like these were cheap knick knacks to keep the workers happy. The fact that he actually liked these things made them feel like a real gift and that was very humanizing.

On the other hand, I was at another company where they gave everyone somewhat cheap jackets for a big event and then the exec team showed up in brand new, matching, leather jackets for the same event. That kind of pissed me off because it basically said, we're too good for the gift we just gave you.

Like I said in the last comment, I don't really care about the things, it's the thought that counts.

So when I talk about the "buy your own damn beer" thing, I'm not saying I want a pizza party instead of a raise. I'm saying that if the company is in financial trouble and we need to cut the perks to make pay, that's fine. If the company telling employees they can't afford a few six packs while reporting record profits and the CEO is buying a new Lambo then that's a totally different story. If a company is penny pinching for no reason and they're fine sending that signal, then it's their prerogative, but given how much companies spend on recruiting talent, I feel like if shelling out an extra $200/yr in a way that feels even a little bit personalized is a no brainer.

[soco]

I think the underlying story here is the transparency: if they cut the shrimp and are able to back that decision in the open, people will understand and accept it. If everything is geting cut randomly (or is not there) and you only hear "we must spare" while the CxO bonuses and share prices show otherwise, the reception will be quite different. And if even basic work-related stuff like laptop upgrade or trip costs are blocked (or feel like that), then no reasoning in the world can fix the bad morale: it just shows disregard to the actual work.

[jon_richards]

> What's great about this country is America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you can know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good.

Andy Warhol