[embedding-shape]

> Trump 2 is about dismantling democracy

Seems strange to me that not everyone, including republicans, aren't aware of this, when he's pretty outspoken about not wanting any more elections, and how "if you vote for me this time, it'll be the last time you have to vote".

If a presidential candidate anywhere else was openly talking about wanting to remove elections and democracy in the country (not to mention triggered an insurrection [?!]), I'm fairly sure they'd almost be automatically disqualified. Really strange situation all around.

[frumplestlatz]

Sources for those quotes would be very helpful for anyone interested in this, because I’ve certainly never heard this before.

We’re two years into his term and democracy does not appear to be dismantled, or even remotely at risk of being dismantled. I also expect the same or similar accusations to be leveled at the next Republican candidate, who if elected, will also not “dismantle democracy”.

[embedding-shape]

> We’re two years into his term and democracy does not appear to be dismantled, or even remotely at risk of being dismantled. I also expect the same or similar accusations to be leveled at the next Republican candidate, who if elected, will also not “dismantle democracy”.

I'm not American, I dislike Democrats and Republicans in the US, they're both horrible, just to preface this. Secondly, no other president has urged people to vote for them so people don't have to vote ever again, nor has any president threatened to put previous presidents in jail, nor has any president talked about wanting to skip the mid-terms.

I dislike politicians in general, but also, I'd be blind to not see when someone is extremely dangerous to democracy in general, beyond political affiliations. I'd say the same if it was Obama or who else, because as I said, I don't like any of them.

[encom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7l0Rq9E8MY

[embedding-shape]

Useful, thanks.

[tcp_handshaker]

>> Sources for those quotes would be very helpful for anyone interested in this, because I’ve certainly never heard this before.

Asking for a quote of what he said so many times, and that is so easily found with a basic web search, says a lot about your comment.

[frumplestlatz]

He hasn’t said what the parent said he did, and in the peer comment linking a video of him saying something similar, the context supplies quite a different meaning than was implied above.

[Alacart]

Here is a video of him saying it:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bTm0du4kUH0

[frumplestlatz]

Thanks for the context.

He’s speaking to evangelical Christians that do not regularly vote, and in the context of instituting voter ID to secure future elections.

ID is required to vote in most (all?) EU states.

[crote]

The issue with voter ID laws isn't with the concept of having to identify yourself at the ballot box, it is with the way it is implemented.

For example, in my EU country I can vote with my passport, my drivers license, or my ID card, and they accept documents which are expired for up to 5 years. For context: this is less restrictive than the documents anyone is technically required to carry every time they leave their home! The number of people who can't meet this requirement is basically zero, and a decent bunch of municipalities offer them for free to poor people.

Meanwhile US has no universal ID system, which allows the pro voter ID groups to carve out a list of "acceptable" IDs which just so happens to be popular with the people that are going to vote for one side of the political spectrum, while excluding the forms of ID which are popular with the other side. And of course it's not just about identification, as they also add a bunch of irrelevant details to the requirements like the information having to exactly match your birth certificate.

Combine that with the failed two-party system where even a handful of votes often completely swings the political landscape and it is pretty obvious what is going on.

[frumplestlatz]

State ID (usually a driver’s license) is the defacto universal ID system.

It’s not hard to get, and you need it to do everything from filling a scheduled prescription, buying alcohol, entering a bar, flying on a plane, or purchasing cold medicine. You literally cannot function as an independent adult without one.

You also need to show it — along with a second form of ID — to be hired at a job.

Anyone claiming a state ID requirement meaningfully prevents anyone from voting is being deeply unserious.

If they actually believed what they claim, they’d be campaigning to remove the ID requirements that are already pervasive in our daily lives. They are not.

I’ll also note that buying a gun requires not just multiple forms of ID, but also an entire background check. If we can do that for one constitutionally enumerated right, we can damn well require a photo ID to cast a ballot.

[alchemism]

Buying a gun is not a right, actually.

[Alacart]

I think you’re being disingenuous and deliberately trying to refocus the conversation on something else now.

He literally said “if you vote for me, you won’t need to vote again”. It’s not an ambiguous statement and doesn’t require extra context. Everything else you said didn’t really have anything to do with it.

[tcp_handshaker]

>Seems strange to me that not everyone, including republicans, aren't aware of >this, when he's pretty outspoken about not wanting any more elections, and how >"if you vote for me this time, it'll be the last time you have to vote".

1) Puerto Ricans were called publicly on a Trump rally in New York, an "island of garbage" and they massively voted for Trump.

- Second generation Latinos, whose many parents, and grand parents and other close family are illegal immigrants, were repeatedly warned of what would happen, and its one of the constitutions, that massively voted for Trump...

- Trump continued to state, as late as 2024,that the Central Park Five were responsible for the 1989 rape of a woman in the Central Park jogger case, despite the five males having been officially exonerated in 2002. - Trump was a leading proponent of the debunked birther conspiracy theory falsely claiming president Barack Obama was not born in the United States - Trump and his company Trump Management were sued by the Department of Justice for housing discrimination against African-American renters.

Donald Trump made big gains with Black voters in 2024.

- Trump is a convicted rapist and felon, and is known 44 million women voted for him...

We are past strange, and we are in the phase of electorate deserves what they voted for.

[frumplestlatz]

If you find yourself with a view of reality that massively differs from others, you have two options.

(1) Assume they’re irrational, uninformed, and wrong, or

(2) Reconsider your priors and attempt to understand why they think the way that they do.

Let’s take the “island of garbage”. It was said by a comedian during his set. The Trump campaign stated “this joke does not reflect the views of President Trump or the campaign”.

The way that you framed it, however, was very careful to be true while also being misleading.

[saulapremium]

I think the viral quote "Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches." is probably pretty apt. The IRGC also has real support among the Iranian population. Putin clearly has strong support in Russia.

Generally, a lot of people are just not good people.

[embedding-shape]

> Generally, a lot of people are just not good people.

Worth remember, no one sees themselves as the "bad people", in each one of those 1/3's point of view, they're the "good people".

[saulapremium]

..maybe?

I mean, I would have said something exactly like that a few years ago. But first of all, history is full of atrocities committed by humans. They may all have considered themselves good people, but if they were/are objectively not, what does that matter? And secondly, I have encountered people who appear to think that decency is for sissies or something to that effect. Those people seem seriously emboldened lately. Do they think that being a good person is something to aspire to? I don't think so.

[embedding-shape]

> but if they were/are objectively not, what does that matter?

It matters less for them, and more for you. Yes, we see them as horrible, but also yes, they see us as horrible people. In the end we're all humans, and we all work towards what we think is better, but the method and goal what "better" actually is obviously differs.

> Do they think that being a good person is something to aspire to? I don't think so.

Yes, of course they do, but their definition of "good person" differs between you and them. For you, decency is "good person", for them, ignoring decency is "good person", so of course they aspire to being a good person, whatever that means for them.