[palata]

> EU hate each other

I see how it may look like this from the outside. But I think it would be like saying that siblings hate each other because you witnessed an argument.

Most people in most EU countries consider the other EU countries as allies, even though they don't agree on everything. Now the fact that 27 countries argue means that they talk to each other. I think it's a lot less polarised than in the US. Or course there are extremes too.

[gmueckl]

The EU needs to be more vigilant than ever, though. Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU for decades and now the US has openly declared a goal of exporting their brand of blind ignorant nationalism to the EU as well. Both influences will boost alt-right parties if successful. The obvious intended outcome for both powers is a EU that is breaking up from the inside.

On the positive side, this shows that the EU has gained a level of international influence that is taken very seriously by other major powers. It's not 100% certain that it will survive this current wave of assaults, but if it does, it will be even stronger.

[palata]

I don't think it's new: dividing Europe makes Europe weaker, so if you are not Europe, it is generally in your interest to divide it. Be it Russia, China or the US.

That is also why the nationalists inside of Europe want to be friends with those other players: because if you want to make Europe weaker (because you think you are better off on your own as a European country), then your interests align with those other players.

[gmueckl]

What's new to me is the openness and agressiveness of those attempts. This isn't a quiet power struggle wrapped in diplomatic niceties anymore.

[j_maffe]

> Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU

Let's not pretend that nationalism doesn't have deep roots in Europe.

[gmueckl]

Do you think that I do? Nationalism existed at the edges of the political spectrum for a long time. I'm saying that outside propaganda tries to actively boost the popularity of those parties.

[j_maffe]

I think it's easy to blame foreign nations for issues in the local population. Would be great if Europeans take responsibility for once in their life.

[gmueckl]

You're still attempting to twist my words here. It's not exclusively one or the other. Don't make that claim. Don't pretend that I made it, either.

[palata]

Well of course there is nationalism in Europe. The thing is, it weakens Europe. And nationalists outside of Europe are very happy to help them. Not only Russia: look at Elon Musk and his nazi salute and publicly endorsing neo-nazis in Germany...

[crote]

The new part is that the nationalists of various countries are now, ironically, banding together in international cooperation.

[embedding-shape]

Also not new, been happening for as long as I can remember. Nordic Resistance Movement for example been around since late 90s, and early 2000s they were already banding together with other organizations in the Nordics, and even collaboration with their German counter-parts and more.

From the top of my head, Franco, Hitler and Mussolini frequently helped each other, two of them even created a somewhat famous alliance together, even though by their own "theories" they should have been fighting against each other instead.

I'm sure there are even more examples further back too.

[pjc50]

I have no idea how you'd measure it, but I suspect Republican states hate Democrat ones more than most European countries hate each other. Listen to the way they talk about California and New York.