[fragmede]

The "other than that" is whitespace, not brackets. Whether that's a big deal is up to you, but the carry on effect of that is that the code is indented the way the control flow interprets it, so there are no bugs from misplaced braces. (Plenty of other bugs for other reasons, unfortunately.)

[strangegecko]

I find brackets help me understand structure from a distance much better than whitespace.

Misplaced brackets seem like a thing from the past to me when we didn't have IDEs. I don't remember ever having a bug due to that.

[zahlman]

> I find brackets help me understand structure from a distance much better than whitespace.

I can't imagine how. Whitespace physically lays out the block structure on the screen; braces expect you to count and balance matching symbols, and possibly scan for them within other line noise.

[KptMarchewa]

This is a 00s POV. If you spend any time on syntax formatting in 2026, you're wasting it. It's a solved problem.

Any reasonable language with braces has standard formatter that will just put each brace level on a different whitespace level.

[zahlman]

Yes, and so will any reasonable text editor automatically indent to the most likely position, and remove an entire indentation level with backspace, and substitute spaces for tabs per community standards, and keep everything lined up neatly.

But GGP was making a claim about the braces themselves solving the problem, and they clearly do not. The indentation automatically inserted by your tooling solves the problem. And it's at least as easy to communicate the intended block structure with colons and backspaces as with open braces and close braces, plus it doesn't waste lines (or invite bikeshedding) for the closing braces.

[pmontra]

Nevertheless it happens that while moving code around one wonders what indentation level that code should go. Undo, undo or git show the original code, look at it, retry more carefully.

Brackets would allow the editor to autoindent the pasted code.

No choice is perfect.

[polytely]

Working in C# i feel basically still read code structure by the visual block structure / indentation. I dont think I've ever counted braces in my professional life. The IDE makes sure it is formatted correctly and ambiguity is basically impossible.

[zahlman]

Exactly. So if the indentation is the actually salient thing, why not use it directly?

I mean: you don't count the braces because your tooling counts them and makes the indentation match what Python would use anyway. If you had just created that indentation in the first place (which with a proper editor is at least as easy as typing the braces; you essentially type : instead of {, and backspace instead of } ) then you'd be in the same place, except without the extra punctuation noise (well, with half of it, because GvR thought the colons were a useful signal even if redundant).

[RHSeeger]

Whitespace and braces work together to make the code more readable; both by the computer and the human. And they make it less likely to have errors, because the braces convey intent (much like parens in math when they're not "needed")

[bazoom42]

So you would find bracketed code without any use of indentation easier to read than python?

[pmontra]

It's no more 1990, when Python was born. Editors have been automatically indenting bracketed code for a long while. Probably notepad doesn't, or maybe plain vanilla vim.

[bazoom42]

The comment I replied to stated brackets helped them more than indentation.

[johncearls]

Whitespace forcing proper indentation practices has always been one of my favorite aspects of python. I TA'd a data structures in C++ class and the lack of proper indentation making code unreadable was my biggest pet peeve. I always made the student fix their indentation before I would help them debug it.

I know that is mainly a beginner coding issue, but never having to deal with that issue was always one of the biggest advantages of python.

That said, I believe a lot of the stuff that was added in 3 and beyond (to make it more typesafe, accounting for unicode, etc) has made it a lot less readable over time. You can argue that it has made Python a better and safer language, but the pseudocode aspect has gotten worse. I kinda miss that.

[jeltz]

Python and C are the only language in which I have experienced that class of bugs. And that is due to if statements without brackets in C and because Python has meaningful indentation which people have accidentally messed up when refactoring.

And today with autofotnatters I think only Python is still vulnerable.

[zahlman]

If you are messing up indentation accidentally during refactoring there is either something wrong with your tooling (including your text editor) or you are letting things get too far out of hand before starting the refactoring.

[forlorn_mammoth]

It's 2026. I'm using Jupyter notebooks in Databricks. Guess what my tooling (including my "text editor", the Jupyter notebook), does not do?

Yes, I can castle-[ to shift a block of code left or right, but this is not always problem-free nor is it automatic nor does it have any sense of where the indents should go.

Yes, there is a "format python properly" button which often errors out says "there is an indentation error in your python so I cannot automatically indent it"

Would I like to use better tooling? I present my .vim file as evidence. Am I using what they tell me is state of the art? yes. And in 2026, state of the art does not solve python indenting, because python indenting is inherently a broken paradigm

[zahlman]

> Would I like to use better tooling? I present my .vim file as evidence. Am I using what they tell me is state of the art? yes. And in 2026, state of the art does not solve python indenting, because python indenting is inherently a broken paradigm

I don't know what to tell you. I use Vim and find it trivial to get the indentation right using my distro's stock config.

[Sohcahtoa82]

Does your tooling not allow you to select multiple lines of code and press Tab or Shift-Tab to indent/dedent the entire block?

It usually only takes me a 1-5 seconds to fix the indentation when I copy/paste code that existed at a different indentation level. This is not something I'd complain about, personally.

[RHSeeger]

Ah, the old "you're doing it wrong" argument. Moving code from one place to another (copy/paste from online or just from one file to another) is a fairly common source of bugs for a lot of people when it comes to Python. At some point, it becomes clear is an issue with the language, not the people.

I enjoy Python, but the significant whitespace is _not_ one of the reasons.

[zahlman]

> Moving code from one place to another (copy/paste from online or just from one file to another) is a fairly common source of bugs for a lot of people when it comes to Python.

I genuinely don't understand how they manage this. Worst case, you paste at column 1, re-select and tab such that the baseline is appropriate for where you're pasting it, which is obvious. But more importantly, you shouldn't be copying and pasting unless you're proficient enough to fix such mistakes easily.

I also don't understand how it can be argued seriously that braces avoid the problem. If you'd paste at the wrong indentation level, why would you not equally well type the wrong number of braces?

[sophacles]

There are plenty of python bugs from mis-indented code. Particularly given multiple parts of a flow that "else" can apply to.... for/else, while/else, if/else, try/else and so on. It happens quite often in python codebases I've seen.

Also, good automatic formatters (gofmt, rustfmt, etc) also indent along control flow lines, so without the braces you just changed a syntax error into a "hmm, this is acting really strangely" bug-hunt by using python.