[benoau]

I think this conflates "old" with "killed". Most of the stuff is just old.

I would say the Mac Pro was "killed", left to languish after the trashcan model, then isolated from third party GPUs when it finally got upgraded to Apple Silicon, and then left to languish again until the lack of sales justified killing it.

Rosetta 2 will certainly deserve a spot on this list next year when they start yeeting it, an amazing piece of technology that has made Apple Silicon-era Macs uniquely capable of executing the widest range of software.

[ryandrake]

I think it's important to highlight Apple's mentality: That old devices are dead to them, and the pretending that they don't even exist anymore.

I have a house full of Apple hardware and none of them get updates from Apple anymore, and I can't manually update them without hackery (OpenCore) or wiping them to install Linux (where possible). Also, because third party app developers largely align with Apple's philosophy, less and less 3rd party software even works on my computers anymore. Heck, even Homebrew, which ships open source software that has always run on my devices, relegates my hardware into their "tier 3" garbage can[1].

The combination of Apple's and third party's disinterest counts as "killed by Apple" in my book.

1: https://docs.brew.sh/Support-Tiers

[brk]

This isn't really just an Apple mentality though. I have all kinds of old electronics and devices from Google, Samsung, Intel, WD, etc. that all fit this exact same description.

If you've ever tried to run a hardware business (or really any business), you know that it is not financially sound to continue to support old devices that have been superceded (sometimes more than once) by newer products that consumers are currently spending money on.

We can debate if this is the way things should be, the aspect of whether you truly "own" things, software escrow, and on and on. But the phenomenon itself is in no way unique to Apple. If anything, I have found that the usable lifespan of Apple hardware is, on average, longer than the usable lifespan of other name-brand electronics in similar categories.

[ryandrake]

Absolutely, we could easily have any number of killedby[manufacturer] websites. A device being "old" is a common reason/excuse manufacturers use to stop supporting it. Just making the point that Apple is not a special exemption.

[fieryskiff12]

Even in a smaller scale, the VFX consortium had to be created when Sun stopped giving support to that part of Hollywood. Their position in the industry, the trends they set, and the intertwining of software and the "Liberal Arts" they clearly do have power upon, makes them a special exemption. If it was only of hardware they would have been out of business decades ago.

Could delve in the sheer amount of data rot created by it and their drop of 32 bit support, but would be even more broad of it.

[troad]

I always thought it was strange how intolerant Homebrew is of users who are not surfing the bleeding edge.

I held out using MacPorts for ages, but there came a point when I just could not reasonably expect to find the software I needed on MacPorts, but could on Homebrew, and so I switched. I wish Homebrew hadn't won that particular mindshare war. Moving from MacPorts to Homebrew felt like downgrading from an actual package manager to a duct-taped shell script.

[ryandrake]

The good news is that MacPorts is IMO better than ever. I previously did the MacPorts -> Homebrew switch, but recently moved back and am very happy with MacPorts.

[jonhohle]

I never moved to Homebrew, and never understood the appeal. It’s refreshing to see people coming back to MacPorts after the last decade.

[stasomatic]

If you ever try to install any packages from GH or an indie, you only get brew install/cask instructions. It's game over.

Regarding the appeal, this probably exists in Mac Ports, I do not know since you guys reminded me it still existed, but Brewfile lets me provision a new Mac very efficiently.

[troad]

That's good to hear, thanks for letting me know. I might check it out again.

[alwillis]

> Also, because third party app developers largely align with Apple's philosophy, less and less 3rd party software even works on my computers anymore.

I think it's more about 3rd party app developers attempting to improve their products and stay relevant.

If Apple releases a new framework or API that would make a developer’s app better, but it requires macOS 14 or later, are they not supposed to incorporate it?

I've noticed lots of 3rd party developers keep older versions of their apps available for older macOS versions.

[ryandrake]

On both macOS and iOS it is straightforward to target older devices while using the newer SDKs, and to use those new frameworks conditionally based on the user's OS. Of course, Apple's tooling makes this harder and harder to do, the older the targeted OS is.

[BugsJustFindMe]

> I think it's important to highlight Apple's mentality: That old devices are dead to them, and their pretending they don't even exist anymore.

Sorry but the HomePod wasn't "killed" just because they upgraded from gen 1 to gen 2. Gen 1 HomePod literally just got a software update a month ago with another on the way. The iPhone X wasn't "killed" just because they released the iPhone 11. This list is egregiously version-centric for things where it makes no sense.

[soperj]

They used to just kill those things with upgrades until they were forced not to.

[d12bb]

Apple had much longer support lifetimes for their products than all their competitors long before talk of mandatory minimums started to reach actual governments.

[simonklitj]

Yeah. Still daily driving my two 8-year old OG HomePods. Compared to e.g., Sonos, who discontinued the Play:1 after 5 years, that's pretty good.

[Scaevolus]

Apple could easily support eGPUs if they wanted to, but they choose to have vertical integration over fragmentation or usefulness. It's the same as them not supporting OpenGL or Vulkan: they could if they wanted to be a better gaming/porting target, but compatibility of any sort is not a priority.

[cpuguy83]

Apple did recently approve drivers for both nvidia and amd, but not for gaming purposes.

Apple supported OpenGL plenty, just that the world moved. Apple created metal, shortly after Vulkan was created.

"They could support it if they wanted to" is almost a tautology. Of course they could. But then they have to support another thing. They are on the hook when something goes wrong.

[benoau]

What they approved was very limited, unofficial 3rd party drivers with very limited application.

It's the first positive sign in a decade but also almost entirely unrelated to what people would consider supporting AMD and Nvidia cards.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47640380

[rayiner]

Right. Like the Lightning Connector and Apple SIM, replaced by USB-C and eSIM. It's like saying ISA slots were "killed by Intel."

[jm4]

Agreed. Aside from obsolete hardware that was replaced with newer products, there isn’t really anything on this list that I miss except for HyperCard. Just about everything worthwhile became another product or got rolled into something else.

[usermac]

Macbook 12" was the best form factor computer ever.

[trvz]

Size, but not form.

Best form goes to the Neo, current Air, or 2015 MBP.

They should be offering a 12” Air now.

[paprikanotfound]

I came here to comment the same. I'm still using my iphone SE 2nd gen and it's still receiving software updates. Calling it dead is a bit misleading imo.

[linhns]

Fellow user here. It still surprises me on durability and usefulness. Its small size fits into my trousers’ pockets and even if it falls out, it won’t brake like a Samsung.

[fsflover]

Nevertheless, when Apple decides to kill "your" hardware, you will have no recourse. You are forbidden to manage and update it yourself.

[fooker]

> widest

wider sure, but widest?

[benoau]

I think so, Macs can run software written for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows and Linux, everything else is incapable of running the iOS and Mac stuff. Virtualizing macOS from a Linux or Windows sucks for arbitrary reasons, and both macOS and iOS are missing a compatibility shim like WINE.

[fooker]

All this sounds great in theory, but Mac does not have a particularly stable ABI and it's fairly common for closed source software from 5+ years ago to just not run.

[criddell]

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it can run more software (legally) than any other platform.

[horsawlarway]

Yes, the company that explicitly closes its ecosystem can also run the more open ecosystems legally, and those open ecosystems can't legally run the closed one.

That's a knock against Apple, not a bragging point.

[criddell]

I've come to believe Apple's way is probably the only sustainable way.

I'm a Windows user who also develops for Windows desktop and it's kind of sad that even though Windows has a way larger desktop share, there just isn't much going on compared to MacOS. Every week I read about some cool new or updated MacOS application and I can't remember the last time I read something similar about a Windows application (other than games).

The only reason I can think of is that MacOS developers are more motivated at least in part by having users that are willing to support developers by paying for software.

In turn, users and developers willing to pay for computing motivates and enables Apple to make better hardware. They don't always get it right, but I think they are doing a better job than most companies. It's also the reason why I think Apple's recent push for services revenue is so dangerous. The incentives aren't as aligned with users.

Maybe next year Framework or System76 will come out with their answer to Apple's M-series chips and I'll have to re-evaluate, but right now it feels like it's Apple against everybody else and everybody else is racing to the bottom.