[decimalenough]

The article gives short shrift to the real real crisis: you need to read 12 paragraphs down to find a casual mention of the "sexual-abuse bankruptcy", which also explains the precipitous 2020 collapse in membership in the chart that is prominently shown up top. Turns out parents aren't too keen on sending their kids into camps that have reported 92,000 cases of sexual abuse (and how many cases were not?).

[duskwuff]

Are you sure that's the only cause? I can think of some other events in 2020 that might have led to a lot of youth dropping out of in-person programs.

[naijaboiler]

i disagree with you. The author is pointing at deeper cultural issue of lack of candor that unaddressed allows things like sexual abuse to flourish. It is an organization that is not willing to tackle serious or face hard things head on. Yeah and their product sucks, so improved marketing won't save it.

[intrasight]

> Its historic advantages—brand recognition, inexpensive outdoor access, and the prestige of Eagle Scout—once masked program defects.

I don't think the product sucked at all I think the packaging of that product was terrible. My father took me to a scout meeting when I was 13. Afterwards, he asked if I was interested. I said no - they really come across as Nazi Youth combined with religious fanaticism, and neither appeals to me.

I was sad because the product is truly awesome.

[Spooky23]

One of the issues is that their historical strengths became weaknesses. Scouting integrated into existing infrastructure, which is why religion is such a prominent aspect. (It’s also why as mentioned elsewhere the politics around the LDS church became so recently important.) Boy Scouts was mostly and overlay that slotted on top of church youth programs. (Also other secular groups but that was smaller)

The shifting of religious practice in the US impacted scouting as well. Mainline Protestantism and Catholic Churches are on the decline - that’s the backbone. In the Catholic environment I grew up in, Boy Scouts kept kids engaged after communion with the parish.

The other issue with the model is that the local organization leadership reflected the old model. (ie. It’s a bunch of white dudes) The most traditional, growing communities who would be attracted to scouting with Catholic and Episcopal communities are Hispanic, Filipino and in my area Indian.

It is sad. I was involved from age 7-14 (when we moved) and loved it. But institutions only survive when they can grow themselves.

[throwup238]

Same experience except it reminded my dad too much of his time in the Soviet Young Pioneers.

[raddan]

I was a Scout in four different places growing up. My family moved a lot. My experience (in the 1980s) is that program depended a lot on the priorities of local organizers. Anecdotally, I observed that in communities where Scouting was seen as important—measured by the percentage of children who participated-it was a positive experience.

My time as a Boy Scout in Maine was life changing. It was not just about activities and skills (although there were many), it’s clear that the leaders of that Troop saw Scouting as a kind of secular education in ethics and community. They made the various Scouting accomplishments (ranks, merit badges) feel like milestones along a path of self improvement. It felt important.

When my family left Maine, the local Troop was weird (the Hitler Youth comment by the earlier poster tracks) and activities consisted of playing checkers in a church basement. In particular, peer bullying of younger/new kids was routine. I lost interest at that point and stopped going.

It’s been difficult to follow news of Scouting’s decline for me, because I have seen how positive it CAN be. But perhaps local Troops like this are rare.

[Henchman21]

When I was a child I was made to endure an organization called "Stockades". This was -- in the 1980s -- an extremely religious version of scouting. It... was not fun. After a few weeks of this, of literal begging and crying to not go, finally my parents relented. Neither of them had considered what a "stockade" really was: a place to barricade yourself inside for protection OR a literal prison. Neither seem appropriate for a child learning to take part in the world.

[em-bee]

yeah, very weird name. it's part of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Service_Brigade

[jfengel]

It varies a lot from troop to troop. Some really play up the paramilitary and religious aspects. Atheism is still officially not tolerated, but lots of troops gloss over the "God" aspect sitting front-and-center in the Oath and the Law.

Sorry you bumped into a troop that really sucked. I don't know if a different one would have suited you better.

[AuthorizedCust]

In other settings, I say that the national organization has neglected the programs and the culture for 75 years.

You are confirming the statement. They are both badly neglected.

[moribvndvs]

I was in the Boy Scouts and a lot of it was appealing at first, but it eventually became ugly to me. I loved the aspects that focused on nature, exploration, self-reliance, and to a degree the quasi-military sense of duty, brotherhood, structure, and (at least the illusion) of support which I craved. As I got older though, I became impatient if not infuriated with the organization’s preoccupation with dogma, ideological loyalty, and increasing focus on establishing in and out groups. The leaders and scouts that flourished where rigid top down authoritarian types that epitomized what I grew to strongly dislike about the rest of American patriarchal society that I was increasingly struggling with in day to day life: bullying, hypocrisy, cruelty, and fearful of anything that doesn’t conform to an embarrassingly narrow and ignorant standard. Of course, I understood that it perhaps said more about the fact a lot of dads in my community were assholes, but organizationally it seemed to reward those sorts of people and shit all over everyone else. I just wanted to camp and respect nature, not join the Hitler Youth and get bullied more. I was/am annoyed by people being surprised by the BSA’s problems with abuse, as logically and historically these sorts of institutions are fertile ground for abuse.

[6stringmerc]

Actually the 2020 drop in membership is more closely tied to the disproportionate “voices” of the LDS membership who did everything possible to change the culture of the organization to suit their ends. Yes the abuse issue is real, but don’t discount the Mormon influence. As a group, they have serious psychiatric issues (the most medicated state in the US by a huge margin) and frequently use dishonesty whenever it suits them (see: Mitt Romney and the caffeine prohibition change).

[nephihaha]

That is a very sectarian comment. Whatever you might think of Mormonism the religion, never confuse it with the membership who come in all shapes and sizes. (A large proportion of people in Utah aren't even LDS, at least 40% or more in some areas, and depression is a major issue throughout the other Rocky Mountain areas.)

There is some good evidence by the way that the LDS leadership got wind of the abuse compensation claims before they became prominent, which is why they disaffiliated. It may also be cost cutting, because the Mormon church is providing less and less money for activities of all sorts.

[stavros]

Can't this argument be applied to every group that has more than one member?

[AuthorizedCust]

The 2020 drop was 1/3 LDS pullout, 1/3 pandemic.

The spring membership numbers reveal this. Mid-spring is when the lapsed members from the prior year finally get dropped. Spring 2020 was before the pandemic had any real effect on membership (main recruiting is in the fall), so that is when LDS's withdrawal became apparent.

Then spring 2021 is when we see drops and poor recruiting during the pandemic.

Since then, membership has been largely flat, possibly declining modestly (hard to read precisely).

[vintermann]

I'm out of the loop on this, what changes did the LDS want?

[quantummagic]

The LDS wanted it to continue to be more of a faith-based organization, and also objected to combining boys and girls together into the same program. Ultimately they left the organization at the end of 2019, taking about 20% of the membership with them.

[JuniperMesos]

You don't have to be Mormon or even religious to think that there's value in having a youth program that is specifically male-only, such that you'd be highly motivated to abandon a youth program if it stopped being male-only.

[muwtyhg]

> You don't have to be Mormon or even religious to think that there's value in having a youth program that is specifically male-only, such that you'd be highly motivated to abandon a youth program if it stopped being male-only.

Are you going to expand on this at all? What is the value in Scouts being male-only?

[Henchman21]

Boys need to learn how to be men. Just like girls need to learn how to be women. LOADS and LOADS of material available to young girls to accomplish this goal. Lots of funding for them too, to become women. Boys? Boys are _disposable_ and get _no investment_. I'll admit this is my personal perspective. I would be happy to be wrong about this but I just don't see it where I am in the Midwest.

So I think the value comes from having a male-only space where boys can learn to be men. This is especially true of young men in the throes of puberty where young women are such a huge distraction they cannot even _think straight_. I know this because I got to experience this _first hand_ and it took me many many MANY more years than it would have to integrate my feelings for women into my being or psyche or whatever the word is.

For the record I am neither Mormon, nor religious. In fact I wildly far to the left by most assessments. Admittedly I don't fit neatly into other people's labels.

What is the value in all programs being mixed gender?

[nephihaha]

A lot of Scout groups are church based and not only with the LDS.

I have heard that the LDS church got wind of abuse claims within scouting before they hit the mainstream. They have their own abuse scandals just now so probably didn't want to fight that war on two fronts. Either that or cost cutting, which is a major feature of modern Mormonism, except where temple construction is concerned.

Scouting hasn't taken off in Mormon churches much outside the USA by the way. Not really in the UK.