[nicole_express]

The PC Engine CPU is highly underrated. People like to go "haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" like that makes it a joke, but that clock speed boost on top of the 6502 architecture is a big deal. (The S-CPU on the SNES still has an 8-bit data bus too, so the 16-bit advantage isn't as strong as it seems)

The Arcade Card add-on was designed specifically around using the transfer instructions to rapidly transfer graphics into VRAM, something it was very good at. Made some really good Neo Geo ports possible.

[LocalH]

The PCE (and by extension, TG16) proved that outside of games that relied on high processing speed (3D games like Elite, or sports games), 8-bit CPUs could give every bit as compelling an experience as 16-bit chips.

Wonder what a good programmer could do with a modern 6502-based ISA clocked at 20+ MHz but otherwise identical hardware to <insert favorite 6502-based platform here>. Imagine being able to hit I/O registers on every single hardware cycle because your CPU blows that out of the water (see: SuperCPU on C64/128 which can very much meet the demands of "write a new value each 1MHz cycle")

[rbanffy]

Dream big. Imagine what we could do with a 5 GHz 6502.

Of course, the memory would need to be on the same die to be able to function at that speed, but my Apple //e had a full megabyte of RAM (in addition to the 64 on the motherboard) and, IIRC, Apple’s bank switching scheme could accommodate up to 16 megs. The chip would be mostly SRAM.

Talking to anything outside the chip would slow things down considerably though, and using one in place of a real 6502 would be comically weird. It’d feel like a machine that spends 99.999999% of the time waiting for IO.

Which, amusingly, feels the opposite of mainframes, where the machine appears to never have to wait for IO.

[LocalH]

I think that would be approaching diminishing returns long before getting to 5GHz. If the only real requirement is "you can write a new value to any register on every cycle" then you need nowhere near that level of overshooting. 20MHz might not be enough (I only mentioned that value because there is an actual commercial product, the SuperCPU, that brought 20MHz 65816 to the C64/128), but 48 or 50MHz might fully cover that. Maybe 60MHz if you want to do other processing on lines where you have to slow down to communicate with the rest of the hardware (which requires slowing down to bus speed - even the base-level C128 could not use 2MHz mode with the VIC-IIe display enabled, as the extra 2MHz cycles stomped on the bus, making the VIC-II display what was essentially open bus).

[rbanffy]

Mine was never an exercise in practicality - it would be ridiculous to implement, and complete overkill.

OTOH, I wonder if someone would build something like this - a 6502/65816 with lots of SRAM and system-bus compatible timings - using the cheapest commercially available foundry, how much could it cost.

[dfxm12]

The amazing Street Fighter II' port didn't even need any add-ons! (Well, aside from the 6 button controller)

[fredoralive]

The article notes that the cartridge had some extra bank switching inside it though, as it went over the address space limit for HuCards.

[wileydragonfly]

If they had just let you remap the controls so you had fierce and round house, the two button controller would have been serviceable. All the ports of that game are good. I’ve compared them side by side (SNES, Genesis, PCE) and they’re frankly all fun.

I did have a PCB worked up that lets you convert anything to a PC Engine controller. Can’t give them away!

[pipes]

All ports by capcom are good :) which means all console ports (apart from the sega master system port, which is impressive just not by capcom). The Amiga, spectrum etc etc ports were god awful.

Though apparently the super street fighter port on the Amiga is rather decent.

I'd love to read something in depth about the capcom console ports. The snes, magadrive and pc engine ports all look like some minor miracles! I remember an interview with a snes developer at rare were he said sf2 is the most impressive game on the snes. (Think I read that in retro gamer UK mag in the last decade or so).

[snvzz]

>"haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit"

Amusingly, TurboGrafx-16 is a US-specific name, so is the huge shell.

In Japan, the console was called PC Engine and was really compact. Later revised as CoreGrafx and CoreGrafx II, both still the same fundamental hardware.

I own the later variant. Very solid little box that sips power and produces stable a/v output.

[dfxm12]

NEC made some great looking consoles, in Japan. The PC Engine, the PC Engine Shuttle, the IFU-30 unit "briefcase", and the SuperGrafx. I think console design peaked with the SuperGrafx.

In the back of my mind, I have the idea that US regulations required extra shielding that the Japanese model lacked. Maybe this isn't the case. Maybe some American marketer decided it was just too cute or too small.

[mikepurvis]

I think the redesign of the NES shell for the North American market was largely for vanity reasons, wasn't it? Entertainment system instead of computer, grey plastic instead of beige, front loading instead of top, long cartridges that were supposed to look like VCR tapes instead of toys.

[warmjets222]

My understanding was that after American retailers were burned so hard by the Atari crash, Nintendo wanted to position the NES as far from a 2600 as possible.

[xgkickt]

Which, despite the VCR-like appearance, meant no faux wood detailing ;-)

[LocalH]

N also took the opportunity to remove the lockout chip, since the system came out so late in the lifecycle and they were largely successful at stamping out unlicensed releases.

The Japanese version of that redesign also got compatibility with existing SNES Multi-AV cables (at least the composite ones, the AV Famicom didn't output s-video) while the US version was RF-only (and AFAIK is worse for jailbars than any previous NES)

[pseudalopex]

They described the 1st NES changes from 1st Famicom.

[LocalH]

Oops, I misread and thought they were talking about the re-redesign near the end of the NES' lifetime.

[runjake]

When I was a teenager, I had a hobby of importing Japanese gaming consoles and video games.

I had a PC Engine and a Super Famicom (well before the SNES made it to the US!). They both had cosmetic differences but I thought that the Japanese versions of both would be more attractive to US customers. I'm not sure why they shipped different casings like they did.

[pipes]

Presumably you were in the USA? We had grey imports in the UK too, but it was prohibitively expensive. My family was relatively well off, but no way I'd have been able to wangle an expensive import super famicom.

Even worse when the snes did finally arrive we were stuck with pal 50hz squished slow versions, especially noticeable in street fighter 2.

[runjake]

Yep, I was in the US. IIRC, the Super Famicom cost me about $350-$400 at the time. Also had the .jp version of the Neo Geo, which was even more. And the PC Engine and Famicom. I did some tradings between consoles there. We weren't well off but all my job money went into it.

[chocochunks]

For the SNES, from what I heard it was partially because with the flat topped NES, Nintendo of America got a lot of repairs from kids spilling soda or whatever on the NES they were using as a table. For the SNES, they deliberately made it harder to that.

[classichasclass]

I've got a TurboExpress. Recapped, it's a great little handheld. Screen is adequate for the era (though I've seen upgrades). My favourite 6502-based handheld is still the Atari Lynx, but this is close.

[snvzz]

I have a lynx II, and it is a brick (huge! heavy!).

[rbanffy]

The first time I used an IBM PC I was so disappointed. On every aspect of the interaction my Apple II would run rings about it. Character IO via the BIOS on CGA was glacial to avoid writing to VRAM and getting snow, and an 8088 at 4.77 MHz was not nearly 4.77 times faster than the 6502 at 1 MHz - in fact, it felt slower.

It’s not that the 8088 was a horrible CPU - it was a pretty ok one - it’s just that the 6502 was a beast of a CPU.