[wat10000]

I probably wouldn't buy a truck, but it's at least a possibility that I'd get one for hauling materials and towing around town. If I did, I'd prefer a RWD model just to save a little money. I find the modern obsession with AWD a bit baffling. AWD doesn't help you stop in bad weather, so it feels like an illusory advantage there. RWD can be "interesting" compared to FWD, but modern traction control on an electric drivetrain should make it a non-issue. (In practice, I can abuse the accelerator on my non-truck RWD Teslas pretty badly without any issues with losing traction.)

[cheschire]

When was the last time you drove on an unplowed road with only rear wheel drive?

Unpowered wheels become uni-directional skis, regardless of their ability to turn left and right.

[AngryData]

Basically never? And I live in a deep rural area 30 minutes from the northern border. Where do you live that you drive through unplowed roads? The only time ive ever wanted AWD or 4WD is once or twice knowingly risking getting stuck by pulling off of people's driveway onto their lawn.

[toast0]

Half of my vehicles are RWD only, and my roads are very rarely plowed. No big deal most of the year...

Of course, when it snows, it's diffferent, but local geography means if it's snowing enough to matter and the plows haven't gotten around, it's not worth it to be driving, regardless of drive configuration.

If driving throw unplowed roads with snow and ice is a regular thing for you, sure. But lots of people never drive in those conditions, so AWD adds weight and complexity that's unnecessary. But people like to be prepared for everything.

[wat10000]

A few months ago when it snowed last time.

I used to occasionally drive a V8 with no traction control in Wisconsin winters. It was fine, just took a little care. A modern electric drivetrain is about a million times better.

Unpowered wheels still steer just fine. AWD certainly does better. But I'd rather be cautious and take it slow anyway.

[sunshinesnacks]

> AWD doesn't help you stop in bad weather

I frequently think about this when weather gets bad! I already have AWB (all wheel braking?). Seems like AWD could make it too easy to get in a situation where my AWB isn’t sufficient to stop

[cucumber3732842]

>Seems like AWD could make it too easy to get in a situation where my AWB isn’t sufficient to stop

It's the opposite. You're more likely to carry too much speed into a situation in a FWD/RWD vehicle because doing so improves things a lot of the time. Take for example a highway merge. You can't accelerate well, so you carry more speed through the turn to make the merge more safe. Well that works great and improves safety for all until some moron stops at the end of the ramp. With the AWD vehicle you can come into that situation and many, many more with less speed.

Acceleration is the weakest link in the snow. The sketch factor goes way down once you get AWD. This is why no matter how hard the internet screeches about snow tires the median consumer who drives in a fair bit of snow will choose AWD first.

[wat10000]

That's never been the case for me. Acceleration may be the issue I'm most likely to encounter, but the worst thing it'll do is inconvenience me. If traction is bad to the point where I won't be able to accelerate properly on a ramp, then either everybody's going slow enough that it doesn't matter, or I'm going to stay off the highway because it's too dangerous.

Trouble accelerating in snow is common and a non-issue. Trouble stopping is uncommon but a potential disaster.

[cucumber3732842]

It's not the highway that gets you (typically). It's all the stupid little roads that are built to substantially lesser standards. Steeper grades, tighter curve, hard 90 junctions, etc, etc.

You carry just a hair too much speed into a curve because you're anticipating not wanting to have to use any gas pedal on the rise just beyond and you wind up in the ditch. Or you go wide into a curb because you took a less optimal gap in traffic at a ~5 roll when taking a left turn because that way makes you less likely to get T-boned than coming to a stop and trying to find an even bigger gap in traffic. Or you slide backwards down some stupid driveway or bump something in a parking lot (ask any delivery, parking lots and driveways are the worst).

[wat10000]

Sounds like a skill issue, as the kids say. If you go too fast, you'll be sad. I don't buy it that 2WD makes you more likely to go fast.

[saalweachter]

Snow tires, people! Snow tires!

A FWD vehicle with snow tires is frequently better in the snow than an AWD without snow tires. Better control, better stopping, better uphill on snowy roads.

[cucumber3732842]

>A FWD vehicle with snow tires is frequently better in the snow than an AWD without snow tires. Better control, better stopping, better uphill on snowy roads.

Control and stopping of course, but I'd love to see the justification behind "better uphill"

Napkin math says that doubling the contact patch over which the motive force applies still wins because snow tires aren't going to double your friction coefficient. And this is before you consider unloading of the front suspension on a hill (though for most grades it's still probably got more weight than the rear of RWD).

Furthermore, this seems to be corroborated by reality. People in snowy climates tend to go AWD rather than snow tires and snow tire makers typically advertise by comparing stopping/handling rather than acceleration.

[saalweachter]

Snow tires can actually double your coefficient of friction on snowy pavement!

The coefficient of friction drops fast on snowy ground, with all season dropping as low as 1/3-1/4 of their dry value.

Of course, snow tires plus AWD is even better, but I find snow tires on a FWD vehicle to be plenty to drive up steep hills in snowy weather. (Before learning of the wonders of snow tires, I used to have to take different routes home if it began snowing because I couldn't reliably make it uphill without losing traction.)

[cucumber3732842]

>Snow tires can actually double your coefficient of friction on snowy pavement!

Citation? Seems to good to be true. Maybe studded tires on the perfect ice.

>The coefficient of friction drops fast on snowy ground,

NickCageYouDontSay.jpg

[vablings]

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/tire-test-all-s...

It's likely more than double as the test results indicates lateral G not coefficient of friction. Snow tires make a bigger difference than any other factor. Good tires make a bigger difference on track too, more than any one single performance upgrade

[mingus88]

Yep

All cars are “all wheel stop”

All wheel drive doesn’t matter when you lose traction and need to stop. When you are sliding on ice all cars perform the same, and the quality of your tires is what matters. AWD just gives people false confidence to drive faster than they can stop.

I convinced my wife to stop buying the absolute cheapest tires by telling her it is literally the only part of the car that actually touches the road. Why would you cheap out on that?

[dghlsakjg]

Yup. Growing up in Colorado you realize that AWD is frequently the cause of the trouble in bad weather rather than the solution.

[dec0dedab0de]

I've never driven an AWD, but having a 4x4 in a snow storm is wonderful. Waking up and driving through the pile of snow from the plow to go to wawa before I even think about shoveling is an absolute luxury. Plus, driving on the beach is pretty fun too.

[creaturemachine]

You get better regenerative braking performance out of FWD or AWD. Since typically the front brakes do most of the work, it makes sense to have that energy go into the motor rather than friction braking.

[kgermino]

That's true, but if you stay in the regenerative zone it doesn't (seem to) make that much of a difference in practice.

All the braking power happens in the rear if you only brake the rear wheels

[wat10000]

Traction is very rarely the limiting factor with regenerative braking even when it's only on the rear wheels.