[somebehemoth]

Why were these sharp edges not discovered in UAT? It seems hard to believe that the people who make Photoshop do not use Photoshop to the degree necessary to notice these regressions. How will you avoid these kinds of problems in future updates as your transition to a modern design continues?

[MontagFTB]

In a word: they were. We do use Photoshop (though not to the level or extent of most users) and noticed the regressions. Shipping software is in perennial tension between getting it perfect and getting it out the door.

Going forward, we would like them fixed, too. Personally my hope is the message from user feedback like this is heard loud and clear, and we respond appropriately.

[Neywiny]

So just to confirm, Photoshop is willing to ship regressed products to paying customers and views that as preferable to just not doing that?

[freedomben]

I'm far from an adobe fan, but I feel the need to defend them just a little here.

Everyone with non-trivial software has to do this to some extent. Perfection just isn't possible. The real measure is in where the company finds the balance. I think Adobe needs to tilt toward the perfection a bit more, but this is not something that people can do unilaterally without buy in from the very top of the chain, which I'm guessing GP is not.

Keep in mind that photoshop isn't the near-monopoly that many people think it is, especially in light of generative AI. If they take too long to ship features, it will similarly be criticized by paying customers who feel Photoshop is hobbled.

[Neywiny]

They said they were principal scientist for this change and voluntarily took partial responsibility. I think if you look at this in a greater context of things were perfectly fine for decades and then they broke then I'm not sure how it's at all defensible. Just looking at the old vs new modals, there aren't even really new features. It's just breaking it

[pkcoskfiwjfj]

Yeah, but there’s a world of difference between “not perfect” and “we rounded a few sliders, and now the modal is a nightmare to use”.

Rolling out a new UI for such a staple piece of software is smart. But doing it the way they are doing is absurd. Why even release it when you have basically nothing to show besides a broken modal, rounded sliders and a couple things made thicker? That’s not being mindful, that’s just someone’s unfinished staging build that got pushed to production by mistake. It’s insane that they’re doing this to Photoshop (of all apps). And honestly, quite insaner that anyone would defend anything from Adobe after all the crap they’ve pulled (and continue to pull) over the years.

They are wrong. They are going about it the wrong way. And paying customers deserve a hell of a lot more. Adobe OWES us a better treatment. Big time.

And unfortunately Photoshop very much is the monopoly many think it is. Those complaining about Photoshop being hobbled because it can’t hallucinate AI slop are not Adobe’s target audience and main source of income. Adobe’s only as crap as it is now exactly because it knows it holds basically the entire graphic design industry in a stranglehold. No other apps are currently even close to Adobe’s in terms of compatibility, functionality and support—unfortunately. I wish someone would come and claim Adobe’s crown, but that is simply not happening.

[PKop]

> Shipping software is in perennial tension between getting it perfect and getting it out the door.

First do no harm. Changing functionality that works is not in tension with getting regressions out the door. Assure it is working before shipping by hiring testers that use the product to the level or extent of most users.

> We do use Photoshop (though not to the level or extent of most users) and noticed the regressions.

Is there something you want to tell us about management? This is crazy, if what you mean is you know you broke this for power users but shipped it anyways, or that you don't have power-users on payroll to constantly test your product that you can call "part of the team".

[freedomben]

Disclosing my bias up front: I think Adobe is an evil company and I actively avoid them. This is not personal against Adobe employees however. I know there are a lot of people who want things to be better and work their asses off toward that goal.

Indeed, I don't think most people can appreciate how hard the tension is between shipping and perfection. As a fellow perfectionist, it kills me to ship things that I know aren't perfect, but I've had to work on becoming more of a pragmatist because if I had my perfectionist way, shipping would take years and feedback loops would be so long that it would be somewhat self defeating (though that's a personal problem). I appreciate you taking the time to respond here, even knowing you'll catch some heat.

[somebehemoth]

We are not talking about perfection. We are talking about breaking a stable piece of software and affecting people's muscle memory with minimal upside to users. People provide for their families with Photoshop. It is unacceptable to push a change that impacts millions of people and then throw your hands up in the air and claim that this is all inevitable because perfection is impossible.

If this was a startup or new software finding a market fit it would be different. This is industry standard, professional software that impacts livelihoods. More thought should go into each release because of this fact.

[MontagFTB]

Thank you. Differing opinions of Adobe aside, you sound like the kind of engineer I'd enjoy a beer with.

[dkdokdoefjej]

Adobe’s engineering team being drunk would explain a lot.

[freedomben]

Same! Appreciate the engagement

[somebehemoth]

> Shipping software is in perennial tension between getting it perfect and getting it out the door.

Photoshop is the premiere image editor that has been in existence for decades. The issues you are responding to are fundamental changes to how the application behaves. It defies belief that your team and its processes have this little respect for dedicated users who have spent thousands of dollars on your product over the course of years. I understand shipping software. Do you understand your users?

[pwg]

> Why were these sharp edges not discovered in UAT?

These kinds of sharp edges should *never* have made it as far as UAT. All of these should have been caught in the first prototype and never made it beyond that point.

The fact that they made it all the way to the shipping product shows that too many responsible parties were asleep at the switch.

[PaulDavisThe1st]

> It seems hard to believe that the people who make Photoshop do not use Photoshop to the degree necessary to notice these regressions.

Why? The actual people who make Photoshop are programmers, and this is a tool for image editing.

[PKop]

> the people who make Photoshop

Obviously they should have a few power users on payroll that find these obvious regressions quickly, and we can call them part of the team who make Photoshop. I'm not sure why this, and what the lead scientist said is valid justification. Just hire "people that use Photoshop". If they already do this, then the people that make Photoshop use Photoshop to a sufficient degree.

But moreover, if one has developed Photoshop for 15 years, I'm pretty sure they are aware of power user table-stakes features.

And then one more point:

> Why?

Because that's what it takes to develop high quality software tools. This shouldn't even be up for debate when charging money for software.

[qingcharles]

They actually have a very slick and very active beta program. I use the betas 99% of the time, and they are practically weekly updated. I'm surprised something like this wasn't reported en masse very quickly. Maybe it's just not annoying enough -- it doesn't reach the threshold for someone to file an issue. I know it's the sort of regression where I would huff and puff and get on with my day.

[MontagFTB]

These changes were part of the Beta program. As far as I am aware the response there was not on the same level as this blog post.