[Cpoll]

It's harder to say that when they invented loot crates. Sure everyone's doing it now, and someone else would've done it eventually, but Valve pioneered it.

I suppose, yeah, some things would be a lot worse without Steam, so there's that.

[georgeecollins]

Yes, I was there. I sat through a presentation about their original concept for selling content in Team Fortress. Trust me when I say that it turned out nothing like they originally conceived of-- which is a whole different story. The whole idea that they "invented" loot crates is weird because the idea goes back to collectable card games and other things. I am not saying they are without fault.

[Pay08]

And various games from Asia were already doing lootboxes in video game form since about the time Valve was founded.

[Melatonic]

You could also argue loot crates are just the digital version of Pokémon card packs

[perryprog]

You could, but that doesn't make /either/ an acceptable to market towards kids.

[georgeecollins]

Yeah, because that would be like selling packs of baseball cards to kids with enticements like chewing gum, a practice that was outlawed in the United States in the 1950's.

[wtetzner]

Was it outlawed in the 50s? I remember getting baseball cards with gum in the 90s...

[wmeredith]

Eh, Topps did in the 1950s and The American Tobacco company did it in 1909.

[po1nt]

That is not true. Gachapon mechanics existed long before, valve only took it to western market, not knowing the consequences. Remember this is way before gambling sites. It was a way to earn a cool random hat on TF2.

[Cpoll]

I'm aware of what Korean MMOs were doing years earlier, but it feels different, in a way I can't quite put into words. I suspect there's a psychological aspect to earning the chest and buying the key.

But yeah, maybe I'm pushing a distinction that doesn't exist, and it's all just forms of trading cards (which themselves were popularized by tobacco companies).

[po1nt]

I feel like it's innocent and we made it into what it is. If valve was the first one to bring cactus plant to the people and we started pleasuring ourself with it. It wouldn't be Valve's fault.

In the end it's like trading cards. Way to collect a cool cosmetic that doesn't break the game and trade it with people, making a community and new friends.

We made it into "buy 20 spins"

[account42]

> not knowing the consequences

Yeah right, they just accidentally massively profit from it. Come on dude, Valve has behavioral psychologists on staff. They don't just accidentally abuse players.

[po1nt]

They are for profit business. Even grocery chains have behavioral psychologists. Valve doesn't run the gambling sites, they even tried to stop it multiple times. [1][2]

Valve doesn't pocket anything from the direct trade. Their cut is the same regardless the selling price of an item, except when traded through steam marketplace.

The only benefit valve stands to gain from this is the free marketing. Their business in this sense is not much different from trading cards, except the goods are digital.

[1] https://www.hltv.org/news/43421/valve-bans-skins-gambling-ca... [2] https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/30/14440958/team-fortress-2-g...