[rsync]

Imagine how much faster electric car adoption would be if incumbent auto makers weren’t using them as dumping grounds for experimental, half-baked, and unsafe design experiments?

We never wanted their “electric cars” … we wanted their cars, but electric.

[Zigurd]

All of the German car makers, plus Hyundai, are very serious about making really good mainstream electric vehicles because they all believe that will be their core of their business sooner rather than later.

[thrownawaysz]

> All of the German car makers

The basic Seat Leon combi is currently 22.000€ on promotion. And that's a spacious family car. No EV car exist at that price point in that size with a range that most people would be comfortable with it.

Yes they will exist in the future but we are still a decade away from that at least.

[bluebarbet]

>we are still a decade away

How much will you spend on fuel during that decade? Seems likely it will be more than today's upfront cost differential. Possibly a lot more.

[tpm]

> No EV car exist at that price point in that size with a range that most people would be comfortable with it.

Disregarding the range because that's a different topic. Fundamentally EVs will be of a different size than ICEs because the big and heavy battery has to placed somewhere low, which is usually under the passenger area floor. Then the car must be higher to accomodate that and also sturdier etc., so at that point we have a bigger and heavier car for the same interior space. And also pricier of course. So it's better to forget the Seat Leon Combi and look at the EVs with fresh eyes.

Or you can retrofit an EN to a ICE shell, like Stellantis did with eg the Opel Astra TS which is also cheap for an EV, but mostly everyone agrees this is a dead end.

One more point regarding the price - that's our own (EU) making. Chinese EVs in China are much much cheaper.

[izacus]

Average price of sold new car in EU is around 45.000 so what exactly is your point?

[mjhay]

Coulda fooled me. From what I’ve seen, it seemed like they were dragged to electric kicking and screaming after other options didn’t pan out - even with assistance from regulators. Germany has a severe problem with rational consideration of energy issues.

[WarmWash]

The Achilles heel of EV adoption, and why I think Tesla has had such a leg up, is that your classic dealership really doesn't like selling EVs.

The salesman aren't knowledgeable about them, they don't have ownership experience with them, and EV's generate dramatically fewer lifetime "service" visits and parts sales.

This was common with the f150 lightning, where salesman were pretty much "If you want it I can do the paper work, but let me show you the regular F150's we have here if you like to drive places without headaches."

[mattmanser]

We don't have dealerships in the UK like the US has.

[WarmWash]

A true blessing. Ironically the US dealership scheme was hatched as a way to protect consumers...

[evan_]

How does the UK do car sales?

[gib444]

We have a lot of big dealer groups who are not tied to a specific manufacturer. Independent franchisees tied to a single manufacturer are uncommon I believe.

Even within each sub-brand of the group, they often work with different manufacturers.

Though Sytner (the biggest) tend to have single-manufacturer dealerships.

Probably a mix of both on both sides of the pond I imagine?

And there's less rigmarole during the process. Less aggressive sales tactics I believe

[evan_]

In the US the standard thing is to have a car lot that's just a single manufacturer. In a given town there will be a Ford dealer, a Chevy dealer, a Subaru dealer, a Kia dealer, etc.

Often there will be multiple dealers on adjoining lots, owned by the same conglomerate- but they'll maintain some illusion of independence.

I bought a Hyundai recently and the Hyundai dealer was right next to a Volvo dealer and a VW dealer. They're all part of "Sheppard Auto Group" and they share a parking lot, but the buildings are completely disconnected. However when it came time to actually sign the paperwork they led me from the Hyundai dealer to an office in the VW building, because that's where the sales manager who was working that day was. They also share a service department.

However, if I'd wanted to buy a VW though and I went in to the Hyundai building I suspect they would've made me walk over to the VW building and talk to those salespeople, and all my paperwork has the name of the Hyundai dealer on it. The point is you'd never go to "Sam's Car Dealership" and find a Ford parked next to a Honda parked next to a Chevrolet.

Independent used car lots are a free-for-all though.

[yread]

I don't know. Kia Niro is now 10 years old and looks completely normal and you could buy it as HEV, PHEV or EV

[mpyne]

Yeah, the first EV I bought was an otherwise boring Hyundai Kona. Great car and great EV but you could easily mistake it for the gas version if you weren't paying attention.

And surprisingly to me it is even pretty damn efficient despite being originally designed as a gasoline-powered vehicle.

[tzs]

There are some where the EV is largely the same as the non-EV other than the necessary differences because it is in an EV such as instruments and menus.

For example Hyundai Kona EV differs inside from the Kona ICE and hybrid models by having the shifter on the column instead of on the center console and the floor is flatter from not needing to accommodate the transmission tunnel.

A mix of Googling and LLMing suggests that BMW, Genesis, Mini Cooper, Volvo, and VW also have some EVs that are very similar to their non-EV cars.

[rsynnott]

VW tried that, particularly with the eGolf (which was pretty much indistinguishable from a normal Golf); it didn't really work. A lot of people thought VW didn't even _make_ electric cars until the weirder-looking id3 and 4 came out years later.

[traderj0e]

I remember when there were no mainstream EVs and everyone kept publicizing some EV concept that looks like it'd be a ride at Disney Epcot.

[benhurmarcel]

Did you stop looking at cars after 2015 ? Most electric cars look very normal.

[bobthepanda]

Yes and no. The F-150 Lightning did a lot more poorly than expected and it’s the best selling vehicle in the US.

It is interesting with the current oil shock what will happen to US automakers that have all but abandoned fuel efficient cars.

[traderj0e]

The F-150 Lightning is definitely not the best selling vehicle in the US. Maybe best-selling EV pickup truck.

[bobthepanda]

https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-f-...

[traderj0e]

That lists the Ford F-series as #1, not the F-150 Lightning which is 1.3% of that per https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/content/dam/fordmediasite/u... . I've seen about 3 ever.

Even the F-series popularity is kinda overstated by this because other cars are more fragmented.

[appointment]

I think they were trying to say that it's surprising the Lightning sold so poorly considering the popularity of the ICE version.

I do think F-150 buyers tend to be more conservative than average car buyers and more receptive to anti-EV FUD for both political and cultural reasons.

[bluGill]

Trucks are also more likely to be used to tow at least once in a while. Electric range does poorly there

[nutjob2]

What's galling is Tesla's influence. Why do electric cars need to have screens besides (or instead of) the dashboard? WHY? Or any other of Tesla's misfeatures.

I own a Kia Rio hachback. It was incredibly cheap for the features and has been incredibly reliable. I just want an electric version of that with as much range as possible and a heat pump for cabin climate control and battery management.

But nope, can't have that, instead we have a market full of cars 4+ times the cost with a bunch of stupid, useless, asinine bells and whistles.

I assume they'll eventually sell that, in about 10 years time, which makes me sad.