[hgomersall]

I've recently realised that the biggest problem with smartphones is not that they steal your attention (which is bad enough), but that they steal your disattention

I don't know of a better word for it than disattention. Perhaps downtime? But it's not so structured. It's just those moments where you'd previously let your mind wander. Gone forever.

[SimonPStevens]

It's called default mode thinking. Or the default mode network [1].

And I agree, not letting your mind do this from time to time results in higher stress and less ability to focus.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network

[ethbr1]

At some point on William Gibson's now defunct micro blog*, he's about to embark on the book tour for Pattern Recognition (so circa 2003).

I'll butcher his insightful phrasing, but he remarks to the effect of

> I think I'm going to stop blogging. The act of sitting at a laptop and writing these posts seems incompatible with my life as it exists on a book tour. The only free moments available for it to occupy would be ones where I'm sitting, momentarily caught between two scheduled activities and staring off into space. I have a suspicion these moments are crucial for my soul. So, until we meet again.

The comingled ambiguousness and specificity of the observation stuck with me.

* https://web.archive.org/web/20070123212506/http://www.willia...

[throw0101c]

> William Gibson's now defunct micro blog

Isn't that what X/Twitter basically is (was?), a "micro blog"?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microblogging

[ethbr1]

His posts were typically slightly longer than twitter. "Miniblog"? Topic + 2-5 sentences.

Also, he's a published writer... so that's another substantial difference with average twitter.

[MollyRealized]

I have to admit, I had hoped that Bluesky would have countered that 300-character limitation and been a true microblog. I'm not sure why they chose to ape Twitter's limit.

[MassPikeMike]

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." -Blaise Pascal

[ryanmcbride]

Eh, I get what he's going for but I think it has more to do with our inability to see others as human.

[pcblues]

I thought that was Einstein, Lincoln, or Keller :)

[pcblues]

Marked me down? That was a joke about how quotes are misattributed on the internet. (I am the following person) But if you are good at your job because you see faults before humour and it happens as a personal trait, then good on you. Found another fault.

[throw0101c]

It is from Pensées, 139:

> Diversion.—When I have occasionally set myself to consider the different distractions of men, the pains and perils to which they expose themselves at court or in war, whence arise so many quarrels, passions, bold and often bad ventures, etc., I have discovered that all the unhappiness of men arises from one single fact, that they cannot stay quietly in their own chamber. A man who has enough to live on, if he knew how to stay with pleasure at home, would not leave it to go to sea or to besiege a town. A commission in the army would not be bought so dearly, but that it is found insufferable not to budge from the town; and men only seek conversation and entering games, because they cannot remain with pleasure at home.

> But on further consideration, when, after finding the cause of all our ills, I have sought to discover the reason of it, I have found that there is one very real reason, namely, the natural poverty of our feeble and mortal condition, so miserable that nothing can comfort us when we think of it closely.

> Whatever condition we picture to ourselves, if we muster all the good things which it is possible to possess, royalty is the finest position in the world. Yet, when we imagine a king attended with every pleasure he can feel, if he be without diversion, and be left to consider and reflect on what he is, this feeble happiness will not sustain him; he will necessarily fall into forebodings of dangers, of revolutions which may happen, and, finally, of death and inevitable disease; so that if he be without what is called diversion, he is unhappy, and more unhappy than the least of his subjects who plays and diverts himself.

> Hence it comes that play and the society of women, war, and high posts, are so sought after. Not that there is in fact any happiness in them, or that men imagine true bliss to consist in money won at play, or in the hare which they hunt; we would not take these as a gift. We do not seek that easy and peaceful lot which permits us to think of our unhappy condition, nor the dangers of war, nor the labour of office, but the bustle which averts these thoughts of ours, and amuses us.

> Reasons why we like the chase better than the quarry.

> Hence it comes that men so much love noise and stir; hence it comes that the prison is so horrible a punishment; hence it comes that the pleasure of solitude is a thing incomprehensible. And it is in fact the greatest source of happiness in the condition of kings, that men try incessantly to divert them, and to procure for them all kinds of pleasures.

> The king is surrounded by persons whose only thought is to divert the king, and to prevent his thinking of self. For he is unhappy, king though he be, if he think of himself.

> This is all that men have been able to discover to make themselves happy. And those who philosophise on the matter, and who think men unreasonable for spending a whole day in chasing a hare which they would not have bought, scarce know our nature. The hare in itself would not screen us from the sight of death and calamities; but the chase which turns away our attention from these, does screen us.

[…]

* https://www.gutenberg.org/files/18269/18269-h/18269-h.htm

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensées

[fuzztester]

tl;dr ;)

pascal long letter quote

https://www.socratic-method.com/quote-meanings/blaise-pascal...

[sersi]

And mostly reduced creativity.

I'm addicted to reading, I take my kindle and phone everywhere, so will grab them when I'm walking, taking a shower, waiting in line, going to the restroom... Between my kindle and my phone, I read a lot more books than I ever did but I don't digest the information as much as I used to. I also don't make as much associations between what I read and things going on in my own life. So, in a way, despite reading a lot more, I don't think I benefit as much from it.

Now, I'm purposefully forcing myself not to reach to my kindle when taking a walk so that my mind can wander as much as I do.

[topnde]

This is a bit outside the point, but how do you actually read while taking a walk, logistically speaking? Do you mean you take a walk somewhere, sit down on a bench, then take your kindle out? Or actually read WHILE walking?

[pfooti]

I do this all the time. Hold your kindle or book far enough away that you have good peripheral vision of your surroundings. Practice widening your view so you can use your peripheral vision to guide your steps while you walk. Look up at intersections.

I can only do this with books. With my phone I am too focused on the phone to work in two visual modes at the same time, which I guess supports the claims.

[pcblues]

For a while, I programmed while walking on a mini-laptop. Nice walking paths where I lived. I was on a hobby project and wanted to spend any minute on it. It wasn't pretty. I kept trying to design a contraption I could wear on my shoulders that worked like a laptop desk.

I also attached a laptop to a treadmill at home, but the static electricity from the rubber mat kept zapping the laptop.

The best result was a laptop on an exercise bike. But the bike couldn't have a high resistance or I would lose concentration.

[abustamam]

I have an under-desk bike (just pedals really). Being able to just move my feet while working is nice. But yeah once it turns into an actual workout then I'd be focusing on pedaling and not work.

[ruraljuror]

> kept trying to design a contraption I could wear on my shoulders that worked like a laptop desk

Nathan Fielder wears something like this in The Rehearsal. Google tells me it is called Connect-A-Desk.

[martheen]

In my city, if the area is so crowded I can pick a stranger to follow to the common destination or if it's so empty that I don't have to worry about walking into someone, I can confidently read even the most engrossing novel on my phone. I won't dare doing that with any bigger screen because I won't be able to see the upcoming obstacle.

[abustamam]

Aside from what everyone else has mentioned, I wonder if Meta's Raybans or something similar could be useful in this sense (kindle app in your HUD).

Still have complete awareness of your surroundings but still be able to read.

I'd argue that's a much more useful "killer app" than recording everyone around you without their consent.

[sersi]

Read while walking, I live in a walkable city. The pedestrian way is safe. I stop reading when I arrive at any intersection then start again once I cross. Even as a kid, I'd rush to open any magazine I bought before I got back home and would read them while walking.

[watwut]

I live in a walkable city, am safe, but others dont appreciate me bumping onto them. And I want to reach the destination without bumping into walls. Or stepping into bike lane or car lane.

[sersi]

See the above comment by pfooty who explains it better than I did. I don't bump into people nor bump into walls. I use my peripheral vision to see what's happening while reading my kindle.

Honestly, it's never seemed hard to me and I don't remember a time when I was not able to walk while reading without bumping into things. Even as a student when studying for exams, I'd walk around in circle in my room reading my textbooks, for some reason walking helped to better remember...

[patapong]

An early stage iPhone app has you covered for typing ;) https://www.type-n-walk.com/

[netdevphoenix]

Reading while walking is possible. I used to do this. But with physical books

[pcblues]

I used to do it walking to school when I was about 10. Nearly got hit by cars quite a bit.

[Insanity]

'boredom' is how I'd call it but it has a negative connotation. Being bored is useful, it lets your mind wander and it's where real creativity can happen.

I read "Non-Things: Upheaval in the Lifeworld" recently and since reading that I make an effort to not pick up my phone as much. I'd recommend reading the book, if you're looking for something to do instead of doomscrolling.

[herbertl]

This resonates with me! In a blog post, I wrote, "It has never been easier to avoid boredom. Distraction is all around you, offering to cover up the painful things you’re avoiding that boredom can sometimes be a gateway to.

Yet without boredom, there can be no inspiration. Boredom is the mud from which the flower of imagination blossoms. Your next creative idea is just one boring moment away." https://herbertlui.net/deliberate-boredom/

[aselimov3]

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll check it out!

[rigonkulous]

>biggest problem with smartphones

Disattention is happening because the user isn't actually in control of the smartphone, the smartphone is in control of the user, because that control is a commodity upon which a grand economy has been built. That control is only possible because the smartphone itself represents an extraordinary degree of managed control in the way it works, a fact which is used to obviate the users own agency over the product they supposedly own.

So I think the biggest problem with smartphones is that significant parts of the smartphone product no longer belong to the user, but they are in fact rented and leased out to other third parties for the exclusive use of attention-gathering.

We wouldn't have third party applications stealing our social media property as individuals - indeed they wouldn't be necessary anyway, in a functioning operating system - if the operating system of the smartphone was designed to make the user able to do social media without requiring a third party.

But smartphones are, literally, sanctuaries for third party economics, against a captive user. They have been designed, as such. Third-party social media is necessary because the operating system vendors are no longer designing operating systems for the users - but for themselves, and others, for which they are handsomely rewarded ..

[conception]

John Cleese had an amazing talk on this - https://youtu.be/nvKeu46jgwo?si=vIRHSJWXff8Kyf2l on being creative

[jvican]

What a gem! Thank you for sharing.

[Otterly99]

I also immediately thought about his book on creativity. Thanks for the talk. For me, instead of staring at a wall, I just take a short walk. I think doing any activity with low mental load helps creativity.

[gostsamo]

I remember an Asimov short story about a guy who wished that he never waits on queues or for a taxi or for something to happen. He had his wish granted and deeply regretted it for it stall from him the moments of contemplation where his best ideas were coming from.

[pmg101]

An incredibly prescient parable for the modern information overload age, if so. Do you recall the title? I'd love to give it a read. Asimov was a master.

[gostsamo]

here it is, not sure where you can find the text unless you traverse the high seas. I've read it in a story collection called after Azazel.

https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/Writing_Time

[zem]

"Writing Time". it was the first thing I thought of too - the story definitely made an impression on me at the time!

[layman51]

You reminded me of a post I had read on a math-related website. I think it was a math association where different authors could post articles, but it was one about a series of advice columns by people pursuing PhDs or graduate studies in math.

Anyway, the article I'm thinking of was about a guy who had advice along the lines of "keeping up your hygiene" or "maintaining your cleanliness habits" and his anecdote was about being stuck for a while in making progress on a problem, but he would have a habit of taking a daily shower. There was a detail he shared about getting an insight and then being able to write some ideas on the window with the condensation.

I wonder if I can find it again.

[adezxc]

Good Things Come to Those Who Shower by Robert Allen, perhaps?

[layman51]

Yes, this was it. Thanks! Looks like it was part of a book called Living Proof.

[INTPenis]

I used to be addicted to cannabis and one quote that snapped me out of it, and made me move on with life, was Randy Marsh in South Park saying something along the lines of "Weed makes it fun to do nothing and be bored".

That's the same with smartphones and those scrolling apps, they make it fun to do nothing and be bored.

[el_oni]

I wouldn't even say they make it fun, they make it "rewarding" they make it feel like you did something, but I feel worse after scrolling, like some vital essence has been drained from me.

I can't find the motivation to do anything at the moment. But if reddit or facebook get opened up i'll just scroll. It's almost like i've replace doing things with watching other people do things and that somehow makes me less likely to work on my hobbies because i'm not as good or far along.

AI has added to this, almost like, why bother bettering myself when I could probably shit out my idea in a handful of prompts? I need a dopamine fast or something. Might try staring at a wall

[giancarlostoro]

When I go on vacation on cruise ships I never pay for internet and my phone is only used for tracking time and photos. Why be on vacation just to doom scroll?

[SeriousM]

I put my phone in the safe until the vacation is over. And for the mind I do Sudoku at times and collect all my new ideas. It's like a harvest time!

[jcul]

Reminds me of the Beatles lyric:

> I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in

> And stops my mind from wandering

> Where it will go

[disattention]

I feel like this is my time to shine

[alexperry00]

I believe boredom might be the word you're looking for.

[pavel_lishin]

I recently watched this video (on my phone, naturally) about the need for boredom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orQKfIXMiA8

[sublinear]

If I've had enough I will go inside my own mind and daydream involuntarily. It's as inevitable as taking a breath.

I can have the phone in my hand and my eyes will choose the wall instead. Only a call or text could possibly bring my attention back to the phone.

[khafra]

A wise man once noted that the word "amusement" has the same structure as "deforestation."

(@stevenkaas on twitter).

[lucy_hnatchuk]

Nice observation. A word that might fit: "idle mind" — but you're right, nothing quite captures it.

[baxtr]

While I don’t want to downplay the toxicity of smartphones, couldn’t the same be said for books and newspapers?

[dbdr]

When you are reading a book, you certainly need to use your attention. However, you stay in a given topic/world for a sustained amount of time. This feels very different and much less tiring than scrolling on your phone jumping from topic to topic. Especially social media feeds that have been optimized to keep using it as long as possible (dopamine hits and all).

Newspapers are probably an intermediate between those two, to various degrees depending on the specific newspaper (trash vs deeper analysis).

[nyeah]

I think it can. In extreme cases (say grad school) I've had books and "book learnin'" suck the life out of my life.

"All I can do is read a book to stay awake And it rips my mind away but it's a great escape." - Blind Melon

[jclardy]

I think reading is the difference. People didn’t whip out a newspaper when they had less than 30 seconds available. The smartphone has filled these gaps with an infinite amount of content.

Also, community. In a doctors office reading a paper - it is the same thing your neighbor is reading so you can talk about it. With smartphones, this is lost unless there is a pressing global event.

[hgomersall]

Yes, but you tend to carry around a smartphone all the time and the temptation to whip it out whenever there's more than a 5s window can be very strong.

[inatreecrown2]

A smartphone, at least with a connection to the internet, is always new. There is always something new to see and hear.

[Cthulhu_]

Arguably, same with books and - even moreso - newspapers. I vaguely remember doomsaying about people only scanning newspaper headlines.

But think about it, a good newspaper has a mix of news, background, entertainment, opinions, adverts, etc - not unlike browsing reddit or twitter, it's a barrage of emotional ups and downs and items asking for your attention in different ways.

With that in mind I don't think the concept of distraction is new.

[inatreecrown2]

Once you read thru the newspaper you are done. Nothing new left. Not so with the smartphone. Always new.

[whywhywhywhy]

The both have an end and limited novelty.

[negura]

diffuse attention is the technical name. it's contrasted to focal attention

[jgalt212]

The best thing about getting older / presbyopia is it's harder for me to use my phone as much as I once did. Also, I won't get an unlimited data plan for the same reason.

[noveltyaccount]

I go for walks or runs--without headphones. If I listen to music or a podcast, my mind doesn't wander. I need that quiet for processing.

[swah]

Thats why people use shows and podcasts for falling asleep - is that bad?

[anitroves]

Quite true

[soperj]

> Gone forever

I mean, just shut your phone off. You're likely just missing text messages anyway.