[pazimzadeh]

I glanced at some of your other comments.

You think that when Trump calls for death of their civilization it’s rhetorical bluster, but when Iran says death to America it’s real.

You think Shia are more dangerous to America than Sunni because of words, completely ignoring 9/11.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47896662

Khomeini wrote a book about his views and plans. So why did the US and the West stand by and let him take over Iran? How come when Khomeini stepped off the plane he was flanked by a US ambassador and a rabbi?

https://youtu.be/7vxNVLC8EE8?t=646&si=JgLbYTHfbVp0A3Ky

You care more about words than the actual gassing and murder of Iranian civilians by US-supported Saddam Hussein?

When I visited Iran in 2008, half of my extended family had pictures of their kids on the wall who they lost during the Iraq-Iran war.

So why should anyone care how you felt when you were 10 years old?

Israel wants Palestine gone and everyone around them weak, Iran wants Israel gone. What’s actually happening on the ground? Who’s closer to achieving their goals? Are you aware Israel funded Hamas, Al-Qaeda, and ISIS? Do you think Israel actually wants a strong secular Iran?

I do believe you’re traumatized by what you heard when you were little, which is probably why you’re stuck at a child’s pathos-based reasoning, and you block out anything that doesn’t your childhood memory.

[_DeadFred_]

So you admit 'death to America, death to Israel' means death to Israel, and by extension the death to America means death to America?

I think both statements are vile. But the people who who called out Trump aren't willing to admit that when Iran says 'death to America, death to Israel' that is vile and evil as well.

Again, multiple things can be evil. You keep trying to imply only one thing can be, and that me caring about X means I don't care about Y when I simply am keeping to the discussion about X. You are free to start a separate discussion about Y or bring to light other horrible things. We have finally reached the point where you don't deny that 'death to America, death to Israel' means what it says but instead have to redirect so as not to address it.

[pazimzadeh]

> multiple things can be evil. You keep trying to imply only one thing can be

No, never did I imply that. I'm educating you on the the major arguments against your position which you seem unaware of.

Just here I agreed with you that Oct 7 and the Israeli response to it are both wrong. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47921011

> We have finally reached the point where you don't deny that 'death to America, death to Israel' means what it says but instead have to redirect so as not to address it

No, we haven't reached any such point. Death to the oppressor is a very reasonable thing to say. How you follow through is what matters. Reacting to actual violence with violent words is reasonable too. I know it's inconvenient, but there is in fact a rhetorical aspect to "death to XYZ" but you have not been informed of it because the US wanted you to be scared for life of Iran. Just like the US didn't tell you that they were helping Saddam gas Iranians.

The US (amongst other western powers) is responsible for the current situation in Iran, they have blood on their hands, and every time they do damage the regime or to the country without actually toppling the regime, they are strengthening the islamic republic, like a bad venereal disease that never goes away.

I wasn't redirecting, you keep selectively answering my replies and ignoring what's inconvenient. In terms of redirection though, here is a fun read about the immune system from the point of view of bacteria:

The Acquired Immune System - A Vantage from Beneath https://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(04)00307-3

I think there is a lot to learn from how the body actually deals and effectively tames the trillions of microbe present on every mucosal surface of the body.

Key quote: "By selecting for evermore-devious parasites, the immune system is the cause of its own necessity."

It turns out that the solution is not to try to kill them or physically exclude them (that works only as long as they are not starved, they turn suicidal if they start dying too fast, and we actually need them around - just like we need Iran's oil), but to remove the cause of them trying to cross our barriers. That's what mucus does - it actually gives bacteria a slow but continuous source of energy (O-glycans) that they can live on but is too complex to digest quickly so that they can't take over. I'll spare you the details unless you're interested but it's kind of poetic the way natural selection came up with its version of "turn the other cheek" millions of years before us, then went on to ignore it for short-term gain - and now it's unclear again if the microbes or the vertebrates will win in the end.

[_DeadFred_]

I'm sorry your 'this is why religious leaders calling for death to two societies is valid because 1953 and 1980' doesn't resonate with me. I know you think it's intellectually lazy of me not to want to wipe out Saudi Arabia because of 9/11 but I'm just not connecting with what you are selling.

Religious leaders calling for death is wrong, 100% of the time. You aren't going to convince me to change that position, ever.

You never explained why 'death to Israel' means actually working for the death/destruction of Israeli society but the proceeding 'death to the USA' is just impassioned rhetoric.

[pazimzadeh]

I don’t know what you’re on about. I never made a distinction between death to America and death to Israel, you keep trying to put those words in my mouth for some reason.

You seem to think that calling for destruction is worse than actual destruction. We’re never going to agree.

Death to America and death to Israel is not a Shia policy, it’s an Iranian self-defense slogan. Hence why Ayatollah Sistani and his ilk never really chanted those slogans. Khomeini is a Shia usurper who used existing anti-Western sentiment to get power for his specific brand of Shi’ism. Try reading any book on the Iranian revolution.

Yeah, death to people who are killing me. Makes sense to me. Religion is obviously just a multiplier and a way to control people and that’s why I’m against all theocracy and most religions in general. I don’t see how it’s better if a secular leader says it, which is what you’re implying.