[TazeTSchnitzel]

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance.

This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caffeinated days to compare to. It's a profoundly psychoactive substance and does a lot of things to cognition. I guess I have decided I don't enjoy how it feels, having previously been dependent on it.

[bayarearefugee]

Quitting caffeine after decades of use was a bit of a mixed bag for me in the short term, but positive in the long term.

Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings for high carbs and sugar now, presumably this is related to the impulsivity impact talked about in the paper.

Going caffeine-free also made me very depressed for a while with severe anhedonia, this lasted way longer (like 3-4 months) than one would generally expect for caffeine withdrawal symptoms.

I had seemingly become so used to the increased dopamine signaling while buzzed on caffeine that my brain was a mess for a rather extended period of time as it got used to not having it.

Overall I view quitting as a positive for me, but I'd warn anyone thinking about doing it to do it carefully and closely monitor their mental health. AFAIK the impacts of quitting can be quite different for different people, so my experience may differ than that of others, but I had no idea how much of a (temporary) mental health crash quitting caffeine could cause until I experienced it.

[gabriel-uribe]

I'm almost exactly 1 year coffee-free (not caffeine free, but significantly less because tea is much less addictive for me).

Also positive in the long-term for me. Fewer digestive issues, less spiky dopamine sensitive or impulsiveness and performance during the day, better memory. I wish it weren't so.

But damn was the 3-6 months of anhedonia awful. I still feel pangs of it.

[PsylentKnight]

How much coffee were you drinking before quitting? 3-6 months seems like a very long time. As far as I know, most withdrawal symptoms should end within 2 weeks, with the most intense symptoms ending within a few days

[gabriel-uribe]

3-4 cups a day. Was deeply stressed building products with <$100/mo in rev. Couldn't sleep at night from all the caffeine and cortisol spikes.

The ensuing several months were some of the worst in my life (many confounding variables) missing coffee, feeling anhedonic, and inadequately caffeinated/lucid to tackle my problems.

[Noaidi]

You may have naturally low dopamine production or release (or low ATP or GTP). Everyone will react differently because genetics so you are right, everyone needs to be mindful of their reaction.

You might want to look at this pathway, and the enzymes, and the cofactors for these enzymes:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pingyuan-Gong/publicati...

Tyrosine 3-monooxygenase (TH) needs Iron

Aromatic-L-amino-acid decarboxylase (DDC) needs B6

[fc417fc802]

> Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings

That's surprising to me. In my case one of the reasons I discontinued it (emotional effects aside) was mild but consistent weight loss. The stimulant part of the effect seems to suppress my appetite quite effectively although at least part of that is likely indirect due to sustained task focus leading me to skip meals.

[bayarearefugee]

> That's surprising to me.

I think this is one of those YMMV things with caffeine.

It is an appetite suppressant in general but for me it seems to cause a significant rebound effect.

On caffeine I would eat less early in the day (when I was most using caffeine) but then I would get severe cravings for carbs/sugar later at night.

Without the caffeine everything is nice and evened out and I feel way more in control of my eating habits without really trying.

[sph]

A lot of people and research focus on coffee suppressing appetite, which is downstream to the cortisol-raising effects of fight-and-flight response which raise blood sugar among a myriad other things. What they forget is that elevated blood sugar and cortisol eventually results in lower blood sugar than baseline — which is when the hunger strikes.

So yes, coffee is an appetite suppressant, but 6-8 hours later your appetite rebounds. Many people don't feel this effect simply because they have frequent-enough meals and/or coffees to stay ahead of the blood sugar crash. If you get into intermittent fasting, it's pretty easy to notice. In my quest to fix my metabolism, I am constantly aware that my morning cup of coffee is the biggest reasons why I get ravenous around 5pm.

[Lalabadie]

You're not alone, caffeine is a known appetite suppressant.

[randusername]

I experienced a similar anhedonia when quitting caffeine. I don't think the caffeine itself was the problem, I think it was just helping a lot more than I knew with the inertia of circling the pit without tottering in.

Turns out I needed stimulants from time to time, just not that one.

[pdimitar]

What stimulants have you landed on? And do you feel they're better for you?

I'm pondering getting a coffee machine at home. 400 EUR is not a sizable investment and one I'd have forgotten about it 3 months but I'm getting cold feet when it gets to committing.

Americano coffee definitely picks me up and is a full net positive for me. But that's only if I drink 2-3 times a week. Not sure how it's going to be if I start getting it every day.

[randusername]

Working with a psychiatrist, I take half the minimum therapeutic dose of generic Adderall as-needed.

Caffeine makes me feel like I'm overclocked, but Adderall lets me run tasks async. The latter is so much more preferable for dealing with the demands of life.

Medicate at 4pm, then I know I can effortlessly interleave chores, family time, social obligations, and my own creative pursuits. Otherwise I'd spend my evenings on the couch stuck trying to offload unsolved problems of the workday.

Vigorous exercise accomplishes the same thing, but I can't always make that happen "as-needed".

[pdimitar]

That's pretty interesting, thank you. To me Adderall is a bridge too far though. I don't want to truly medicate (though I guess we can always argue semantics i.e. is getting coffee everyday not like medication?).

I just need something like the Americano every now and then really.

I agree on vigorous exercise completely. My last two jobs have been (well, the current one still is) hugely demanding and that led to me dropping a lot of exercise. Still trying to understand why and to undo that because I gained back 5kg (sigh).

Tried Earl Grey too. It's actually awesome but I must be careful; easy to go above a certain dose that just tires me and makes me crash.

One thing I'll try before considering the coffee machine really seriously: theacrine pills. I'll give them 2-3 weeks and will make a decision.

[sph]

I used to be prescribed lisdexamfetamine for ADHD and after 3 years it did feel "a bridge too far for me" as well.

My stimulant of choice now is low-dose nicotine patches which I feel is extremely underrated, and demonised because of the effects of smoking and vaping. Mind you: I am an ex-smoker and I am quite aware of how strong the addiction can be, yet pure nicotine is the most mellow stimulant there is.

It's been 2 years now since I replaced my ADHD medication with nicotine and I haven't felt the need to increase the dosage. It's cheaper, lasts MUCH longer, doesn't cause anxiety and it doesn't push you around like amphetamine.

YMMV.

[nchmy]

Get yourself a moka pot, aeropress or French press. Fantastic coffee for very cheap.

Highly unlikely that 2-3 times a week will last though - either religiously stick to once a week or be open to drinking it daily.

[pdimitar]

I have a moka pot but I guess I am doing it wrong -- maybe I should not fill its coffee compartment to the brim? is there other way of doing it? -- because the coffee that gets out destroys me: heart palpitations, slight arrhythmia, headaches, and energy crash. I can't drink too much caffeine but light doses (i.e. the Americano) actually help me and energize me. It's really weird.

What's good about the aero-press and the French press btw? I am only just trying to understand the landscape.

[nchmy]

Look up Moka Pot Voodoo on YouTube. It'll sort you out.

Americano means nothing - its just diluted strong coffee (eg espresso, moka pot). You probably need to learn how much actual coffee your body can handle.

I handle very little, so have a 1 cup moka pot which takes 9-10g of ground coffee. And that's pushing my upper limit. My body can usually handle better a very unsatisfying 6-7g brewed. I need to find some good decaf... (though I have a line on Laurina coffee, which has half as much caffeine. Hopefully I can get some soon).

French press is just a really easy way to get a great cup of coffee. You don't even need one - you could just make cowboy coffee (grounds in hot water) and carefully decant it out at after 5-10 min. Look up James Hoffman french press method. His aeropress series is good too.

You also need to learn that all of this stuff that everyone says is just drug addict self-talk coping. You only actually get a boost at first, and then your body adapts and is in caffeine deficit and is just trying to get back to baseline with more coffee.

The healthiest way to do any of this would be to try as you said (but likely unsuccessfully) to limit your coffee intake to 2-3 days a week, so that you might actually get a kick rather than just sustain your addiction. Once a week as a special occasion might be more successful. It should be treated as a healthy person treats alcohol...

I'm not even joking with all this drug addict talk.

[ValentineC]

> I have a moka pot but I guess I am doing it wrong -- maybe I should not fill its coffee compartment to the brim?

How big is your moka pot? A "4 cup" Bialetti takes around 16-18g of coffee, which isn't a lot.

No matter how dilute your end product is, the amount of caffeine consumed will roughly be about the same. But I guess diluting it means you take longer to consume all that caffeine.

[ValentineC]

I second either a moka pot or an AeroPress.

The moka pot would be better if you have easy access to cooking facilities (the stainless versions are also easier to clean, and work on induction).

The AeroPress would be better if you only have access to hot water.

[pdimitar]

As written above, coffee from moka pot absolutely destroys me. :(

It's too concentrated.

[benhurmarcel]

Especially if you like Americanos, chances are you'll be happier with filter coffee from good beans, rather than spending it in an espresso machine.

Get an Aeropress, or Hario Switch, or Clever dripper. A kettle and some filters. For beans buy from roasters that do light/meduim roasts, and print a recent roasting date on the package/website. The only expensive item should be a grinder, look at 1zpresso Q/Air/X or Kingrinder K6 if you want to limit price.

[pdimitar]

Not gonna lie, this sounds like way too much work.

What I am mostly looking for is some sort of an easy access to a diluted coffee like the Americano, really. I am OK with buying 1-2kg of beans because I am fairly sure that's going to last me 3-6 months. Cleaning the machine I've done in offices -- 3 minute job.

But any more commitment just sounds tiring. I am not a coffee connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination. But light caffeine doses absolutely do help me in very measurable ways. I need easy access to that.

Buying a coffee machine is not a big commitment obviously, I am just afraid I'll deem the experiment unsuccessful in a month and then I'll have a nice machine lying around doing nothing that I can't easily sell.

[wafflemaker]

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/6760642/melitta-6760642...

This style, pour over machine that grinds itself, but uses all water you put in, so it's not fully automatic.

It's automatic enough, but also very cheap. Maybe even ⅒ of a price of a fancy espresso machine. And you can add "too much" water (than the setting you set) to make lighter coffee.

[dgacmu]

I finally gave in and got a breville bambino plus and I have no regrets. It was $400 on sale, produces quite decent espresso, foams milk well, has been very reliable, and doesn't heat up the kitchen - I held off getting an espresso machine for years because the instant heat ones always seemed to suck. This one doesn't. I mostly drink Americanos and straight espressos, my wife drinks lattes, everybody is happy.

But I have to agree with others: for my diluted espresso desires, I used (and still have) an Aeropress for years and it's simply fantastic. Low cost, almost zero maintenance, good results. Very similar output to an americano though lower on crema.

[ses1984]

You can get an over-the-cup pour over for ~$10-20, basic blade grinder for the same, and a pack of filters. That’s all you really need.

[michaelhoney]

If you are keen for a machine and you like it diluted, I recommend the Moccamaster. It’s a good-looking classic machine that you could definitely sell.

For a similar coffee with more manual work, get a Chemex

[benhurmarcel]

In that case, if you stick to pre-ground coffee, just get an Oxo Rapid Brewer. It’s cheap, easy and fast to use and clean, and only requires a kettle. You’ll get decent coffee.

[mosselman]

I would like to second this solid advice.

I have a very nice grinder: a solis caffissima digital coffee grinder. It is available under a different brand name in the US I think.

I make filter coffee with a very basic earthenware filter holder with melitta high quality yet very normal filters and sometimes I mix it up with an aeropress which offers a different type of taste because of the low acidity way of making coffee. I just drip the coffee into a nice thermos so I can make 4 cups in one go and just pour from the thermos.

My coffee is much nicer than I get in most places, both professional and at homes and it doesn’t cost me a lot in effort, money and, very importantly, workspace footprint.

Espresso machines require a lot of space and maintenance and trouble to make.

Having said all this, I am quite intrigued about all the stories about the negative effects of coffee. I just thought it was about influencing sleep, but I had never thought about the memory and mood effects. I will study this some more in the coming months.

[Uptrenda]

I think this monthly withdrawal syndrome with the anhedonia reflects a true gap in scientific understanding of caffeine. There are communities where people routinely quit caffeine (e.g. /r/decaf) who all notice the same thing. Yet if you look at how long caffeine withdrawal lasts: the reference answer is 1 - 2 weeks (then everything is "normal.")

I think caffeine is legitimately more disruptive and addictive than is commonly acknowledged. It creates quite a life-style loop where you need it for [drive, energy, mood, alertness] as a fix to many of the issues it causes, lol. Caffeine is such a widely used drug yet doesn't seem to have been studied that much. It's fascinating to me how the drugs that are socially acceptable seem completely arbitrary. Like alcohol (which in terms of addictiveness isn't far behind the most addictive drugs.)

In tables that compare the most addictive drugs, you know what drug is always missing yet seems to be consumed more widely than any other recreational drug on the planet: caffeine. This is funny though. It may be difficult to actually do high quality, comparative research on caffeine because to do so you would need to find people who don't already consume caffeine and I suspect that is a harder problem than it sounds.

By the way: the set of people who have never been effected by caffeine shrinks even further if you consider whether the mother consumed it during pregnancy.

[BatteryMountain]

I've had the same experience. Caffeine is super addicting, the ritual & habits surrounding it is a potent pull. For myself, it makes me erratic, impulsive, more reactive and agitated. One cup a day puts me on edge, makes me sweat more, makes me more intolerant, makes everything feel too slow. It such a sneaky drug and it can really get under your skin without you realizing how much it changes you.

[orphea]

I don't have the same experience, and I drink one cup of coffee (270 ml) almost every day. No agitation, no impulsiveness. I can drink coffee in late evening (let's say 8 pm) and sleep well. I guess I'm trying to say that we should not project our own experience on others, everyone is different.

[CuriousRose]

In my experience, this is common among people with ADHD (myself, friends with ADHD, family with ADHD, psychologist’s patients anecdotal evidence). YMMV

[BatteryMountain]

I have adhd too, but cannot use stimulant medications (they are too strong). I've had to use non-stim meds.

What if long term caffeine use causes some of the adhd symptoms? It interesting to ponder because if I stop using caffeine for a month, some of my adhd symtoms go away completely. I've done stints of complete caffeine breaks, content consumption breaks (one week or more without screens) and I felt amazing and alive. The first couple of days of using caffeine feels amazing but then I feel dead inside again and live like a robot. So in my mind, caffeine is my main target when I try to adjust my routine/behaviours.

[sph]

It's not, really. Coffee is an anxiety and insomnia machine for me, while nothing made me as calm as amphetamine (even my heart rate was lower).

I do have a professional diagnosis for ADHD.

[orphea]

Hmm, this is an interesting observation. I do have signs of ADHD.

[blopp99]

I had a similiar case with influeza the past december. I didn't eat for 4 days, fever for a long time, and low energy during the whole 4 weeks it took me to get back to normal.

I couldn't drink coffee or alcohol during those 4 weeks, and notice that I didn't get any migraines after those 4 weeks even when I, for the past 12 years, knew exactly how I got them reliably.

I didn't make sense to me to keep drinking coffee because the benefits of coffee which for me was mostly ritual and taste, didn't outweight the weight of having a migraine for sure if I slept a minute less than 8hrs.

Mind you, I'm talking about a cup almost everyday with milk, ice coffee in the mornings.

[bichiliad]

I had wild food poisoning and had a similar experience (took me out for weeks, didn’t drink coffee). I assume the body must have some sort of gating mechanism for pain; I have absolutely had caffeine withdrawal before, but not that time. I’ve since cut back and switched to tea, which I believe has helped with my anxiety.

[addaon]

I’m in the same spot after 4-5 weeks of norovirus. Couldn’t touch the stuff. Before, was at probably three to five cups a day. Biggest difference was waking up and feeling awake instead of in need of coffee… but I do miss it, too. Trying to decide what the new steady state is going to be. I’ve been doing one cup a day then switching to decaf while traveling, but that’s harder at home.

[bichiliad]

I was genuinely really surprised at how easy it was to fit tea in instead. I have a cup of decaf once in a while, or a cup of normal coffee once in a while, but I kinda just wake up now. I think it's also helped not drinking caffeine as soon as I get up, to be honest.

[yetihehe]

After habitually consuming coffee daily in large quantities for two decades, I had mental health incident, during which I drank twice the amount of coffee and it felt like water. After that incident I still drink previous amount of coffee, but feel much better, much more rested, on an upward trajectory and like I have finally managed to escape the swamp I dragged myself into over many years.

After reevaluating your comment and my experience I declare that coffee is not always a cause of mental health incidents, sometimes it might help people.

[kakacik]

I do believe a lot of it boils down to tolerance. I for example feel basically 0 effects, and drink it just because I like the taste (of a good one with milk, or exceptionally some good espresso / ristretto after big dinner).

I recently traveled and didn't have coffee for more than a week. No change I could feel, no craving, nothing. But one of my ex-gf was quite sensitive on many things, had frequent headaches, low blood pressure and coffee was helping with those visibly. So YMMV.

[readthenotes1]

Notably, the article is looking at coffee, both caffeinated and decaffeinated. There is a lot more to coffee than just caffeine...

[mixedCase]

The overwhelming majority of the enjoyable coffee experiences are caffeinated. While there is good decaf out there it's not the norm, specially in smaller markets.

[tsimionescu]

I think they meant that coffee contains a lot of other compounds than just caffeine, which something like energy drinks or teas will not include. So you can't necessarily extend conclusions from a study on consumption of coffee to effects that other drinks that happen to include caffeine might have.

Edit: this is especially relevant here, as the study found similar effects in decaffeinated coffee drinkers. So the effects they observed, if real, are not related to caffeine.

[grvdrm]

Can you speak more to the psychoactive and cognition impacts to you in specifics?

Very interested.

I am a regular coffee drinker, mostly limited to very early morning (e.g. 5-7 am). Also consume celsius here and there when I want to minimize stomach disruption in the morning (e.g. I am about to run).

But have also used THC in the past (no longer, major anxiety inducer for me). Alcohol like so many people. And more recently went on an assisted MDMA/ketamine therapy journey that continues to amaze me in its impact (in all good ways).

Asking as I am reducing caffeine slowly right now and curious what folks are seeing as differences on/off in real terms.

[Lalabadie]

I've been a decaf drinker for close to a decade now, maybe my experience is interesting to you:

I have better mood, presence of mind and working memory in the morning, especially compared to caffeinated peers. I'm also a lot more aware of when I've woken up from a bad night's sleep (see paragraph 5).

I have much less mid-day dysregulation/impulses compared to caffeinated peers. No predictable afternoon slump either – but a rich lunch will always leave me foggy, lol. If it's the weekend, I'll often join my young kid for the afternoon nap and fall asleep in minutes – the 30-45 min nap usually feels amazing.

Coffee really feels to me now like the psychoactive substance it is. I've had anxiety issues for other reasons in recent years, and today a cup of caffeinated coffee will often trigger a good level of anxiety if I'm not physically active during the peak. The physical symptoms of both are very similar. If I'm moving about, it usually feels good, like something hyped me up, but the sensation comes on its own instead.

Anxiety greatly changes my sleep needs, and caffeine and alcohol both hid these sensations in the past, enough that I suspect I didn't have the interoception (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interoception) to consciously notice and adjust in the past, which would leave me stuck or spiraling in terms of maintenance/recovery, probably for weeks at a time.

In recent days (pretty low anxiety! knock on wood) I have sleep that's almost 2hrs shorter per night, waking up naturally. That came very progressively (sleep quality), then very suddenly (lower needs). Also a great gain, though I also aged a decade and that must contribute as well.

Note that I faded out caffeine by progressively substituting for decaf. No headaches this way (from a peak of ~4 cups a day, I would say?). It sounds like you're doing the same, which I really recommend! There's no need to self-flagellate on top of what's usually a major habit adjustment.

[fellowniusmonk]

I take a 30 min bike ride midday, not a hard ride, just get on the bike and start peddling, I'll now do a leisurely 6-8 mi.

My cognition in my 40s is now better than it was at 26, at 37 before I started this routine I thought my engineering career was over, the post lunch crash, the mental tiredness, just terrible.

The fact that we build our brain work spaces so distant from physical movement is bad for our mental health, our soles, our souls, and doing untold economic damage to our country (the u.s. in my case.), I tried lunch walks for years and it's just too fucking boring, cycling is great, after work I rollerblade and it's so mentally engaging and distinct it obliterates the after work fog.

[brokenmachine]

>The fact that we build our brain work spaces so distant from physical movement is bad for our mental health

Ain't this the truth. It's a ridiculous way to build a society.

[canes123456]

The psychoactive effects of caffeine are massive after you detox for a few weeks. I had a full cup after not having caffeine for a month and the effect was massive. Near euphoria, constant task switching, some anxiety, etc. I personally felt the effect was much stronger than weed has ever felt for me and comparable to having 5+ drinks of alcohol.

But the effect quickly drops to almost nothing very rapidly. I started having caffeine 3 out of 7 days because having a low caffeine tolerance was too annoying. One coke, tea, chocolate would completely destroy my sleep.

[wafflemaker]

I had heart/chest pains from Lisdextroamphetamine (ADHD meds) that went away when I stopped drinking coffee. And I drunk very little, just one half cup in the morning.

Much less anxious now too, but that's more likely due to ADHD meds.

[scns]

Even on the "milder" Methylphenidate you can experince clenching jaw, grinding teeth and a chafed tongue when consuming coffee, tea and even dark chocolate.

[wafflemaker]

While methylphenidate is considered milder, I always experienced come up as much more aggressive. And coffee interaction was just crazy.

Once drank alcohol free champagne, while adjusting meds. I was on 27mg Concerta - long release methylphenidate. It turned out to be too much for me. But, oh boy, when i realized that the champagne was alcohol free, but white tea based - had to leave the birthday party I was at and just walk off the coming panic attack. Compared to that - coffee on lisdex will either just feel a little speedy and then give slight tiredness, or (and I don't understand why and when) give an effect comparable to high dose of methylphenidate - wired and cut of my feelings.

This "cut off feelings" state was why I chose lisdex instead. Not because I was cut off after coffee, but because being cut off of feelings was a regular side effect of methylphenidate for me.

But it's all super personal and case by case. Especially people that also have autism spectrum traits, should be aware that stimulants can work strong on them. So don't suggest yourself with my body's reaction and patiently and compassionately go through the meds adjustment process yourself.

[barrenko]

Coffee is a plant demon that created the western civilization as we know it today...

[fermiNitambh]

I like this worldview. Prior to coffee, Europe was in the grip of the beer dwarves. Coffee demons took over and invented nationalism, capitalism and Keynesian economics.

[malicka]

Putting Keynesian economics next to nationalism on the evil list was so funny, I almost spit out my coffee.

[sph]

Is it? Keynesian economics created the economic framework to finance World Wars.

[nervousvarun]

Obligatory recommendation for: Uncommon Grounds: The History of Coffee and How it Transformed our World by Mark Pendergrast

Fantastic book. I first encountered it...in a coffee shop :) Read a chapter and immediately bought the book for myself.

[anonym29]

At least the coffee demons aren't quite as bad as the amphetamine demons that produced Nazi Germany.

[barrenko]

We could view as amphetamine vs. coffee / black tea.

[1234letshaveatw]

colonizer fuel

[Noaidi]

Yes, same here. I have schizoaffective disorder and realizing that caffeine affected my mental health so drastically was the beginning of my recovery journey 30 years ago. I can use caffeine now as a drug when I need it. Same with alcohol.

[apples_oranges]

Agree, I drink it a lot and then stop drinking it at least once a year for a few weeks, and for sure it's a different mode of mind, but can't really qualify it besides that I remember my thinking being softer, calmer and perhaps even "more correct" without coffee.

(But I never had any mental-health incidents, and I drink a lot of it, more than all people that I personally know.)

[yetihehe]

For many years I go to the same vacation spot (kayaking in the most beautiful nature place I have seen) and go cold-turkey. I didn't notice any side effects of lack of coffee besides slower muddier thinking. After I go back and start drinking coffee, feel back to normal.

I also had a very big life altering mental health incident very recently, drank A LOT of coffee during and I feel it helped, now I am much more calm, "more correct" despite drinking coffee like before.

Based on this I posit that coffee is used by humans to offset unwanted mentality changes, not a cause of unwanted mentality changes.

[nervousvarun]

Consider yourself lucky...You are one of these mythical creatures who don't get migraines from caffeine withdrawal. My wife is the same.

When I quit I get splitting headaches that are way more severe than a typical tension headache. Completely debilitating without medication. Get them for a week or so (also get the muddier thinking but I could live with that).

[iberator]

caffeine is not the same as coffee.

coffee is caffeine plus THOUSANDS of compounds interacting with each other and your body: some of them are protective for the heart for example.

That's why synthetic caffeine is bad, while coffee is overall good in moderation.

That's why more people die from energy drinks than from coffe in coffeeshop hehe

[amelius]

This happened to me with Pepsi cola.

But then I found out I can drink coffee just fine, even 5 cups per day.

Now I'm thinking it was the artificial sweetener.

[testing22321]

Same. I didn’t realize I’d been living life through a fog until fully 12 months with zero caffeine

[jayd16]

The occasional cup where you can actively feel you don't like it, doesn't sound like a solid analogue to the steady state of daily consumption.

I jog every day and enjoy vs I don't exercise but I occasionally sprint and I feel awful after.

[IAmBroom]

GP said they previously had daily consumption.

[jayd16]

And they didn't come to the same conclusion then. They changed their behavior, don't like the new behavior and are extrapolating that beyond the new behavior.

[rimliu]

How do you know that caffeine was the cause?

[ivan_gammel]

This of course cannot be generalized, but withdrawal is quite noticeable for personal well-being in a positive way.

[TazeTSchnitzel]

I didn't say it was the cause of the mental health incident! And I don't believe it to have been "the cause", either. It just happens to have been the thing that caused me to abruptly stop.

It likely was a contributor, insofar as the incident had poor sleep as a contributing factor, and I do know with some certainty the caffeine habit had been causing some (likely not all) of my sleep problems. I can also tell you the very worst day of that incident was when I mistakenly consumed caffeine again prior to being recovered enough for that to be safe; that was a horrible glimpse at what that drug can do to you when you're in an already very unstable state. Caffeine definitely can aggravate all kinds of symptoms, even when you're in a relatively stable state. It's a stimulant, after all.

But I think caffeine consumption is… only one factor of many in causes of that incident, and doesn't deserve any special blame. The relevance of the mental health incident here is really that it gave me a chance and a good reason to abruptly stop, and therefore also the opportunity to see what getting the brain back into the caffeination ritual again feels like. (I've tried taking it for a few consecutive days more than once since then, and not particularly enjoyed it. I've also tried it on single isolated days.)

[m463]

true coffee lovers drink decaf. (they can drink coffee often without or with fewer side effects)