[bayarearefugee]

Quitting caffeine after decades of use was a bit of a mixed bag for me in the short term, but positive in the long term.

Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings for high carbs and sugar now, presumably this is related to the impulsivity impact talked about in the paper.

Going caffeine-free also made me very depressed for a while with severe anhedonia, this lasted way longer (like 3-4 months) than one would generally expect for caffeine withdrawal symptoms.

I had seemingly become so used to the increased dopamine signaling while buzzed on caffeine that my brain was a mess for a rather extended period of time as it got used to not having it.

Overall I view quitting as a positive for me, but I'd warn anyone thinking about doing it to do it carefully and closely monitor their mental health. AFAIK the impacts of quitting can be quite different for different people, so my experience may differ than that of others, but I had no idea how much of a (temporary) mental health crash quitting caffeine could cause until I experienced it.

[gabriel-uribe]

I'm almost exactly 1 year coffee-free (not caffeine free, but significantly less because tea is much less addictive for me).

Also positive in the long-term for me. Fewer digestive issues, less spiky dopamine sensitive or impulsiveness and performance during the day, better memory. I wish it weren't so.

But damn was the 3-6 months of anhedonia awful. I still feel pangs of it.

[PsylentKnight]

How much coffee were you drinking before quitting? 3-6 months seems like a very long time. As far as I know, most withdrawal symptoms should end within 2 weeks, with the most intense symptoms ending within a few days

[gabriel-uribe]

3-4 cups a day. Was deeply stressed building products with <$100/mo in rev. Couldn't sleep at night from all the caffeine and cortisol spikes.

The ensuing several months were some of the worst in my life (many confounding variables) missing coffee, feeling anhedonic, and inadequately caffeinated/lucid to tackle my problems.

[Noaidi]

You may have naturally low dopamine production or release (or low ATP or GTP). Everyone will react differently because genetics so you are right, everyone needs to be mindful of their reaction.

You might want to look at this pathway, and the enzymes, and the cofactors for these enzymes:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pingyuan-Gong/publicati...

Tyrosine 3-monooxygenase (TH) needs Iron

Aromatic-L-amino-acid decarboxylase (DDC) needs B6

[fc417fc802]

> Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings

That's surprising to me. In my case one of the reasons I discontinued it (emotional effects aside) was mild but consistent weight loss. The stimulant part of the effect seems to suppress my appetite quite effectively although at least part of that is likely indirect due to sustained task focus leading me to skip meals.

[bayarearefugee]

> That's surprising to me.

I think this is one of those YMMV things with caffeine.

It is an appetite suppressant in general but for me it seems to cause a significant rebound effect.

On caffeine I would eat less early in the day (when I was most using caffeine) but then I would get severe cravings for carbs/sugar later at night.

Without the caffeine everything is nice and evened out and I feel way more in control of my eating habits without really trying.

[sph]

A lot of people and research focus on coffee suppressing appetite, which is downstream to the cortisol-raising effects of fight-and-flight response which raise blood sugar among a myriad other things. What they forget is that elevated blood sugar and cortisol eventually results in lower blood sugar than baseline — which is when the hunger strikes.

So yes, coffee is an appetite suppressant, but 6-8 hours later your appetite rebounds. Many people don't feel this effect simply because they have frequent-enough meals and/or coffees to stay ahead of the blood sugar crash. If you get into intermittent fasting, it's pretty easy to notice. In my quest to fix my metabolism, I am constantly aware that my morning cup of coffee is the biggest reasons why I get ravenous around 5pm.

[Lalabadie]

You're not alone, caffeine is a known appetite suppressant.

[randusername]

I experienced a similar anhedonia when quitting caffeine. I don't think the caffeine itself was the problem, I think it was just helping a lot more than I knew with the inertia of circling the pit without tottering in.

Turns out I needed stimulants from time to time, just not that one.

[pdimitar]

What stimulants have you landed on? And do you feel they're better for you?

I'm pondering getting a coffee machine at home. 400 EUR is not a sizable investment and one I'd have forgotten about it 3 months but I'm getting cold feet when it gets to committing.

Americano coffee definitely picks me up and is a full net positive for me. But that's only if I drink 2-3 times a week. Not sure how it's going to be if I start getting it every day.

[randusername]

Working with a psychiatrist, I take half the minimum therapeutic dose of generic Adderall as-needed.

Caffeine makes me feel like I'm overclocked, but Adderall lets me run tasks async. The latter is so much more preferable for dealing with the demands of life.

Medicate at 4pm, then I know I can effortlessly interleave chores, family time, social obligations, and my own creative pursuits. Otherwise I'd spend my evenings on the couch stuck trying to offload unsolved problems of the workday.

Vigorous exercise accomplishes the same thing, but I can't always make that happen "as-needed".

[pdimitar]

That's pretty interesting, thank you. To me Adderall is a bridge too far though. I don't want to truly medicate (though I guess we can always argue semantics i.e. is getting coffee everyday not like medication?).

I just need something like the Americano every now and then really.

I agree on vigorous exercise completely. My last two jobs have been (well, the current one still is) hugely demanding and that led to me dropping a lot of exercise. Still trying to understand why and to undo that because I gained back 5kg (sigh).

Tried Earl Grey too. It's actually awesome but I must be careful; easy to go above a certain dose that just tires me and makes me crash.

One thing I'll try before considering the coffee machine really seriously: theacrine pills. I'll give them 2-3 weeks and will make a decision.

[sph]

I used to be prescribed lisdexamfetamine for ADHD and after 3 years it did feel "a bridge too far for me" as well.

My stimulant of choice now is low-dose nicotine patches which I feel is extremely underrated, and demonised because of the effects of smoking and vaping. Mind you: I am an ex-smoker and I am quite aware of how strong the addiction can be, yet pure nicotine is the most mellow stimulant there is.

It's been 2 years now since I replaced my ADHD medication with nicotine and I haven't felt the need to increase the dosage. It's cheaper, lasts MUCH longer, doesn't cause anxiety and it doesn't push you around like amphetamine.

YMMV.

[nchmy]

Get yourself a moka pot, aeropress or French press. Fantastic coffee for very cheap.

Highly unlikely that 2-3 times a week will last though - either religiously stick to once a week or be open to drinking it daily.

[pdimitar]

I have a moka pot but I guess I am doing it wrong -- maybe I should not fill its coffee compartment to the brim? is there other way of doing it? -- because the coffee that gets out destroys me: heart palpitations, slight arrhythmia, headaches, and energy crash. I can't drink too much caffeine but light doses (i.e. the Americano) actually help me and energize me. It's really weird.

What's good about the aero-press and the French press btw? I am only just trying to understand the landscape.

[nchmy]

Look up Moka Pot Voodoo on YouTube. It'll sort you out.

Americano means nothing - its just diluted strong coffee (eg espresso, moka pot). You probably need to learn how much actual coffee your body can handle.

I handle very little, so have a 1 cup moka pot which takes 9-10g of ground coffee. And that's pushing my upper limit. My body can usually handle better a very unsatisfying 6-7g brewed. I need to find some good decaf... (though I have a line on Laurina coffee, which has half as much caffeine. Hopefully I can get some soon).

French press is just a really easy way to get a great cup of coffee. You don't even need one - you could just make cowboy coffee (grounds in hot water) and carefully decant it out at after 5-10 min. Look up James Hoffman french press method. His aeropress series is good too.

You also need to learn that all of this stuff that everyone says is just drug addict self-talk coping. You only actually get a boost at first, and then your body adapts and is in caffeine deficit and is just trying to get back to baseline with more coffee.

The healthiest way to do any of this would be to try as you said (but likely unsuccessfully) to limit your coffee intake to 2-3 days a week, so that you might actually get a kick rather than just sustain your addiction. Once a week as a special occasion might be more successful. It should be treated as a healthy person treats alcohol...

I'm not even joking with all this drug addict talk.

[ValentineC]

> I have a moka pot but I guess I am doing it wrong -- maybe I should not fill its coffee compartment to the brim?

How big is your moka pot? A "4 cup" Bialetti takes around 16-18g of coffee, which isn't a lot.

No matter how dilute your end product is, the amount of caffeine consumed will roughly be about the same. But I guess diluting it means you take longer to consume all that caffeine.

[nchmy]

That doesn't make sense, as my 1 cup takes 10g and 3 cup takes 30g.

[ValentineC]

I second either a moka pot or an AeroPress.

The moka pot would be better if you have easy access to cooking facilities (the stainless versions are also easier to clean, and work on induction).

The AeroPress would be better if you only have access to hot water.

[pdimitar]

As written above, coffee from moka pot absolutely destroys me. :(

It's too concentrated.

[freshchilled]

Moka pot coffee is definitely strong. If that's your only coffee maker, I'd just dilute that with more hot water.

An Aeropress is less concentrated in my experience, and it's pretty easy to use. I prefer iced coffee unless it's cold out, so I fill the collector with ice before I brew. The melted water dilutes it nicely, in my opinion.

[benhurmarcel]

Especially if you like Americanos, chances are you'll be happier with filter coffee from good beans, rather than spending it in an espresso machine.

Get an Aeropress, or Hario Switch, or Clever dripper. A kettle and some filters. For beans buy from roasters that do light/meduim roasts, and print a recent roasting date on the package/website. The only expensive item should be a grinder, look at 1zpresso Q/Air/X or Kingrinder K6 if you want to limit price.

[pdimitar]

Not gonna lie, this sounds like way too much work.

What I am mostly looking for is some sort of an easy access to a diluted coffee like the Americano, really. I am OK with buying 1-2kg of beans because I am fairly sure that's going to last me 3-6 months. Cleaning the machine I've done in offices -- 3 minute job.

But any more commitment just sounds tiring. I am not a coffee connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination. But light caffeine doses absolutely do help me in very measurable ways. I need easy access to that.

Buying a coffee machine is not a big commitment obviously, I am just afraid I'll deem the experiment unsuccessful in a month and then I'll have a nice machine lying around doing nothing that I can't easily sell.

[wafflemaker]

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/6760642/melitta-6760642...

This style, pour over machine that grinds itself, but uses all water you put in, so it's not fully automatic.

It's automatic enough, but also very cheap. Maybe even ⅒ of a price of a fancy espresso machine. And you can add "too much" water (than the setting you set) to make lighter coffee.

[dgacmu]

I finally gave in and got a breville bambino plus and I have no regrets. It was $400 on sale, produces quite decent espresso, foams milk well, has been very reliable, and doesn't heat up the kitchen - I held off getting an espresso machine for years because the instant heat ones always seemed to suck. This one doesn't. I mostly drink Americanos and straight espressos, my wife drinks lattes, everybody is happy.

But I have to agree with others: for my diluted espresso desires, I used (and still have) an Aeropress for years and it's simply fantastic. Low cost, almost zero maintenance, good results. Very similar output to an americano though lower on crema.

[pdimitar]

Nice. Does it have a special option for Americano?

That's the main reason I'm leaning towards Delonghi Magnifica Start. It has a button for Americano. I tried moka pot coffee + diluting it with hot water. It's not the same. :(

[ses1984]

You can get an over-the-cup pour over for ~$10-20, basic blade grinder for the same, and a pack of filters. That’s all you really need.

[ValentineC]

A cheap proper coffee hand grinder like a Timemore C2 would go so much further than a blade grinder that would shred the coffee beans up inconsistently.

(Buy used for even better value. Hand grinders last forever.)

[michaelhoney]

If you are keen for a machine and you like it diluted, I recommend the Moccamaster. It’s a good-looking classic machine that you could definitely sell.

For a similar coffee with more manual work, get a Chemex

[benhurmarcel]

In that case, if you stick to pre-ground coffee, just get an Oxo Rapid Brewer. It’s cheap, easy and fast to use and clean, and only requires a kettle. You’ll get decent coffee.

[mosselman]

I would like to second this solid advice.

I have a very nice grinder: a solis caffissima digital coffee grinder. It is available under a different brand name in the US I think.

I make filter coffee with a very basic earthenware filter holder with melitta high quality yet very normal filters and sometimes I mix it up with an aeropress which offers a different type of taste because of the low acidity way of making coffee. I just drip the coffee into a nice thermos so I can make 4 cups in one go and just pour from the thermos.

My coffee is much nicer than I get in most places, both professional and at homes and it doesn’t cost me a lot in effort, money and, very importantly, workspace footprint.

Espresso machines require a lot of space and maintenance and trouble to make.

Having said all this, I am quite intrigued about all the stories about the negative effects of coffee. I just thought it was about influencing sleep, but I had never thought about the memory and mood effects. I will study this some more in the coming months.

[Uptrenda]

I think this monthly withdrawal syndrome with the anhedonia reflects a true gap in scientific understanding of caffeine. There are communities where people routinely quit caffeine (e.g. /r/decaf) who all notice the same thing. Yet if you look at how long caffeine withdrawal lasts: the reference answer is 1 - 2 weeks (then everything is "normal.")

I think caffeine is legitimately more disruptive and addictive than is commonly acknowledged. It creates quite a life-style loop where you need it for [drive, energy, mood, alertness] as a fix to many of the issues it causes, lol. Caffeine is such a widely used drug yet doesn't seem to have been studied that much. It's fascinating to me how the drugs that are socially acceptable seem completely arbitrary. Like alcohol (which in terms of addictiveness isn't far behind the most addictive drugs.)

In tables that compare the most addictive drugs, you know what drug is always missing yet seems to be consumed more widely than any other recreational drug on the planet: caffeine. This is funny though. It may be difficult to actually do high quality, comparative research on caffeine because to do so you would need to find people who don't already consume caffeine and I suspect that is a harder problem than it sounds.

By the way: the set of people who have never been effected by caffeine shrinks even further if you consider whether the mother consumed it during pregnancy.