Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 49 days ago
Just speculation:

The houses got expensive because homeowners wanted housing to be an investment, so they voted for laws that make it harder to build or densify housing.

Cars are expensive because the government puts tariffs on perfectly good imports to protect the American car companies. The American car companies produce garbage, and even the electric car companies like Tesla and Rivian are producing super-high-tech luxury land yachts. The government incentives are also captured to produce huge trucks, and many states don't have regular inspections, so lifted trucks are common. The companies don't want to build and sell small cars because the perception is that a small car is going to get pancaked in a crash with a bigger, heavier car. Gas prices don't matter because the government artificially suppresses them, sometimes with war.

Corn and dairy are cheap because the government subsidizes them at the behest of the corn and dairy lobbies, which use small good ol' boy farmers who don't even exist as their marketing. A lot of the corn goes to ethanol for fuel, even though it's a crappy fuel and an acre of solar panels results in many more miles of EV driving than the same acre of corn ethanol. So you can also get a cheap soda and a cheap cheese pizza, but a lot of the food pipeline is captured by seed monopolies and middle-men. Somehow milk became a bit of a right-wing meme, and it's basically a naturally-occurring dessert, so people love milk even though it's not good for you and not a good way to get nutrients.

> Even food where normally you could walk in a shop

You aren't supposed to walk in America. You're supposed to drive. Don't get me started lol

3 comments

Houses got expensive because of usury (loans made for unproductive purposes). It destroys civilizations over time. That is why it was encoded into ancient religious traditions.

Housing, education, and cars, all typically financed via loans, all exorbitantly expensive.

If anything it's the opposite. Extremely low interest rates drove housing prices higher by making it easier to afford a higher price.
It’s not about the interest rate. It’s the availability of loans for unproductive purposes on a societal level. It raises the price even if you choose not to partake in said loans.

When the money being lended is digital and not backed by anything it’s even worse.

You said "usury", which is a word that describes loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate. So it's no surprise GP thought you were talking about interest rates.

(Yes, I know "usury" has had other meanings, but this is the current, common definition, and if you're going to use a word in a way that's uncommon, you should be prepared for confusion.)

They said "usury" in the context of ancient societies. I understood their meaning perfectly well. More money lent out = higher asset prices.
I know that it is now commonly defined that way, so I explicitly called out that I was referring back to an the older definition:

> usury (loans made for unproductive purposes)

Okay then! What shall be our working definition of "exorbitant"?
Above the legal maximum. If you're asking how lawyers or lawmakers define that, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest_rate_ceiling
US interest rates have been historically some of the lowest anywhere. And there's nations with very high interest rates that don't have the same housing cost problems...
You're both saying the same thing...
When I hear "usury" I usually think of high interest rates, like payday loans and credit cards, not a 2.5% 30-year term.
That's the modern definition. The comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47880310 was about bans on usury since ancient times, when that term referred to the general practice of moneylending.

"In many historical societies including ancient Christian, Jewish, and Islamic societies, usury meant the charging of interest of any kind, and was considered wrong, or was made illegal."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Low interest rates (i.e. freer moneylending aka more usury) increases house prices.

Payday loans are not illegal. By your definition, and Wikipedia's modern definitions, a payday or car-title loan is not exorbitant, and it is not usury. The payday loan shops around here are licensed, legitimate businesses working with regulated financial instruments.

> Low interest rates (i.e. freer moneylending aka more usury) increases house prices.

You just contradicted yourself. What is usury again? Low interest rates, freer moneylending, is "more usury"? You write in the present tense that freer moneylending and low interest rates are more usury than usury? Are the rates exorbitantly low? Is there an exorbitant number of customers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

Yeah it was redefined to that at some point. See Belloc’s essay on usury if you’re interested.
The definition of usury hasn't changed in 200 years.

From Webster's 1828 Edition:

U'SURY, noun s as z. [Latin usura, from utor, to use.]

1. Formerly, interest; or a premium paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money.

[Usury formerly denoted any legal interest, but in this sense, the word is no longer in use.]

2. In present usage, illegal interest; a premium or compensation paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money borrowed or retained, beyond the rate of interest established by law.

3. The practice of taking interest. (obsolete)

I'm not even sure where "houses got expensive" come from. Houses certainly did not increase in price (per unit of area) in last ~80 years, inflation adjusted - they tightly fluctuate around the same point. Housing affordability is in fact 4th best in the US among all countries in the world, and it got better in the last decades (although with fluctuations, and periods when it was getting cheaper were not pleasant as it meant millions of people going under).
> I'm not even sure where "houses got expensive" come from

Not been shopping for a house recently?

Avg house price in my city doubled in the past 5 years.

Interesting.

This posture contradicts quite a few testimonials we can read about everywhere, including here in HN.

Maybe it's the salaries, then, that are half what they should be?

Because this is vibes vs data. People are made to believe that houses are expensive and people are being squeezed, because it makes money to throw people into rage. Housing price per square feet is flat over decades...
It's very true for LA, SF, NYC, DC, and other similar cities. It's far less true everywhere else. Here in Atlanta you can find homes <250k and condos <150k
Housing being expensive because of laws and zoning that constrain it's supply is often touted, but there is good academic research that that isn't the case. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zfsw4iotsn3nqs8vhu8kb/LMW-FAQ...
That's not the academic consensus. It's a non-peer-reviewed working paper that contradicts the academic consensus.

The authors are clear about this:

"The standard view of housing markets holds that differences in the flexibility of local housing supply - shaped by factors like geography and regulation - explain differences in how house price and quantity growth respond to rising demand across U.S. cities... Our conclusions challenge the prevailing view of local housing and labor markets"

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w33576/w335...

edit: I do think it's a good paper!

Sorry, a Tesla is neither luxurious nor a yacht.