[snikeris]

Houses got expensive because of usury (loans made for unproductive purposes). It destroys civilizations over time. That is why it was encoded into ancient religious traditions.

Housing, education, and cars, all typically financed via loans, all exorbitantly expensive.

[TheCoelacanth]

If anything it's the opposite. Extremely low interest rates drove housing prices higher by making it easier to afford a higher price.

[snikeris]

It’s not about the interest rate. It’s the availability of loans for unproductive purposes on a societal level. It raises the price even if you choose not to partake in said loans.

When the money being lended is digital and not backed by anything it’s even worse.

[kelnos]

You said "usury", which is a word that describes loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate. So it's no surprise GP thought you were talking about interest rates.

(Yes, I know "usury" has had other meanings, but this is the current, common definition, and if you're going to use a word in a way that's uncommon, you should be prepared for confusion.)

[triceratops]

They said "usury" in the context of ancient societies. I understood their meaning perfectly well. More money lent out = higher asset prices.

[snikeris]

I know that it is now commonly defined that way, so I explicitly called out that I was referring back to an the older definition:

> usury (loans made for unproductive purposes)

[ButlerianJihad]

Okay then! What shall be our working definition of "exorbitant"?

[triceratops]

Above the legal maximum. If you're asking how lawyers or lawmakers define that, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest_rate_ceiling

[ButlerianJihad]

So in the USA in 2026, any interest rates or fees that are not illegal, are not exorbitant? And any loan or credit that is not illegal is not usury? That is obviously not the working definition for other commenters here.

If illegal loans have financed our cars, education, and homes, then where are all the criminal prosecutions? Where are the lawsuits to recover the exorbitant rates? Was it consumers taking these illegal loans? Or was it the established banks, negotiating illegal and exorbitant rates with criminals? Is that why banks fail, or are "too big to fail", because we are reluctant to expose their criminal activity?

We heard of people "walking away" from their home loans during the 2008 recession; it's difficult to walk with broken kneecaps! We heard that their loans were "underwater", but we didn't realize they were "sleeping with the fishes"!

[cpursley]

US interest rates have been historically some of the lowest anywhere. And there's nations with very high interest rates that don't have the same housing cost problems...

[triceratops]

You're both saying the same thing...

[mitthrowaway2]

When I hear "usury" I usually think of high interest rates, like payday loans and credit cards, not a 2.5% 30-year term.

[triceratops]

That's the modern definition. The comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47880310 was about bans on usury since ancient times, when that term referred to the general practice of moneylending.

"In many historical societies including ancient Christian, Jewish, and Islamic societies, usury meant the charging of interest of any kind, and was considered wrong, or was made illegal."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Low interest rates (i.e. freer moneylending aka more usury) increases house prices.

[ButlerianJihad]

Payday loans are not illegal. By your definition, and Wikipedia's modern definitions, a payday or car-title loan is not exorbitant, and it is not usury. The payday loan shops around here are licensed, legitimate businesses working with regulated financial instruments.

> Low interest rates (i.e. freer moneylending aka more usury) increases house prices.

You just contradicted yourself. What is usury again? Low interest rates, freer moneylending, is "more usury"? You write in the present tense that freer moneylending and low interest rates are more usury than usury? Are the rates exorbitantly low? Is there an exorbitant number of customers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

[triceratops]

> Low interest rates, freer moneylending, is "more usury"?

In the ancient sense of the term, which this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47880310 used, all moneylending is usury.

More loans are approved and/or borrowers are approved for bigger loans in low interest rate environments. This leads to high house prices. Hence, the "more usury" comment that I wrote. In that one sentence I had the same ancient definition of usury in mind.

I hope you don't believe low interest rates = expensive houses is something I made up.

If you think I'm contradicting myself sure go on. I find it easy to hold two definitions of a word in my head and use the correct one in the right context. But I understand that not everyone can and some may find it confusing.

[snikeris]

Yeah it was redefined to that at some point. See Belloc’s essay on usury if you’re interested.

[marcusverus]

The definition of usury hasn't changed in 200 years.

From Webster's 1828 Edition:

U'SURY, noun s as z. [Latin usura, from utor, to use.]

1. Formerly, interest; or a premium paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money.

[Usury formerly denoted any legal interest, but in this sense, the word is no longer in use.]

2. In present usage, illegal interest; a premium or compensation paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money borrowed or retained, beyond the rate of interest established by law.

3. The practice of taking interest. (obsolete)

[triceratops]

The person I responded to said:

"That is why [a ban on usury] was encoded into ancient religious traditions"

So they obviously meant the old definition, which encompasses all moneylending.

[anovikov]

I'm not even sure where "houses got expensive" come from. Houses certainly did not increase in price (per unit of area) in last ~80 years, inflation adjusted - they tightly fluctuate around the same point. Housing affordability is in fact 4th best in the US among all countries in the world, and it got better in the last decades (although with fluctuations, and periods when it was getting cheaper were not pleasant as it meant millions of people going under).

[loloquwowndueo]

> I'm not even sure where "houses got expensive" come from

Not been shopping for a house recently?

Avg house price in my city doubled in the past 5 years.

[realo]

Interesting.

This posture contradicts quite a few testimonials we can read about everywhere, including here in HN.

Maybe it's the salaries, then, that are half what they should be?

[anovikov]

Because this is vibes vs data. People are made to believe that houses are expensive and people are being squeezed, because it makes money to throw people into rage. Housing price per square feet is flat over decades...

[treis]

It's very true for LA, SF, NYC, DC, and other similar cities. It's far less true everywhere else. Here in Atlanta you can find homes <250k and condos <150k