[KingMachiavelli]

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it: highest power density, fastest charging, odd geometry, and tight space constraints. Manufacturers shrink the phone by offloading temperature monitoring and heat dissipation onto the phone's own electronics and housing — so replaceable, externally rechargeable batteries are tricky to design. IMO, swappable batteries were a feature because batteries used to suck. In less volume-constrained devices like cameras, swappable batteries still work — but you're trading single-charge runtime for that convenience.

This last point is actually a real killer, an easily swappable battery in a phone probably sacrifices >10% "maximum" capacity in lost space. e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.

[theshrike79]

It's the exact same as with EVs.

We COULD have an EV with a 200kWh battery that can go 1000km++ on a charge in -30C weather. But nobody really needs that beyond a few outliers.

What we NEED is ubiquitous and easy charging.

Going for a burger, it'll take 20 minutes for you to order, eat and walk out. On a 300kW charger in the parking lot you can in theory get up to 100kWh charged. Or less with a slower one. Even plugging in to a 50kW charger for 20 minutes is enough.

Same with shopping etc, giving "everyone" a 2kW charger in a parking lot is table stakes in 2026.

And with phones: just have the possilibity of charging everywhere. I have 13€ Ikea Qi2 ("Magsafe") compatible chargers[0] everywhere in the house. Anyone can just slap their phone on one and it'll charge a bit.

There's no reason why we can't have more of those in public - we did try when wireless charging first appeared, but it was a whole chicken and egg thing. Nobody had phones that supported it and finding the exact 1x1cm spot where the phone charges was a pain. Qi2 with the alignment magnets takes that problem away completely.

[0] https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaestmaerke-wireless-charging-s...

[cogman10]

Yeah, ubiquitous slow charging stations more than anything else is really what's needed to make EVs practical for everyone.

They can be ubiquitous for anyone that owns a home which takes a large load off the need for public infrastructure. Adding more L2 chargers and even L1 chargers could easily cover anyone in apartments. And even if there's not quite enough, L3 chargers can quickly cover any gaps if you start running low and couldn't get a spot with a charger.

I think there is a too much focus on L3 chargers in general. For the cost of a single L3 charging station you can put in multiples of L1 and L2 chargers.

[brianwawok]

But why put charges at burger shacks? For most people most of the time charge while you sleep. On trips charge along the highway. Every single store doesn’t need chargers, it’s a waste.

[throw0101d]

> For most people most of the time charge while you sleep.

Unless you're a 'garage orphan': no garage, driveway or parking pad, and have to park on the street.

* https://electricautonomy.ca/news/2019-06-24/solving-the-elec...

* https://www.theenergymix.com/garage-orphans-scramble-for-cha...

Apartments (either rental, or condo ownership) may have underground parking with a few slots for charging.

[Kirby64]

Apartments are rather ideal for charging, if the infrastructure could be planned for. Parking spaces with restricted access... basically ideal for having every space with a charger.

That basically leaves street parking as the last problem child, and that could be solved with lamp chargers like they do in the UK. It's all possible, it's just a matter of will in my view.

[throw0101d]

> Parking spaces with restricted access... basically ideal for having every space with a charger.

Assuming that the landlord (or condo corp/HOA) is willing to pay for the infrastructure upgrades. Also assuming there is electrical capacity.

* https://www.metroev.ca/blog/ev-charger-load-management

[theshrike79]

Load shedding and load management are 100% solved problems. You can even do it with pretty much purely electromechanical components with zero AI, Cloud, NFTs or blockchains =)

It can be a bit better if each charger can, for example, be adjusted independently based on their total load. Even better if the cars can report their charge level to the system, it can optimise by giving more charge to the ones with the emptiest batteries first.

[Kirby64]

> Assuming that the landlord (or condo corp/HOA) is willing to pay for the infrastructure upgrades. Also assuming there is electrical capacity.

Like I said, these are problems of will, not real problems. If you mandated that all newly built apartments have a L2 charger in every parking spot, it could be done. Retrofitting is much more expensive, but even that is not insurmountable.

[numpad0]

There are reasons for burger shacks to NOT have chargers, for EVs and phones alike: restaurants make money by maximizing customer throughput. Excuses for customers to extend stays is damaging to them.

There are other types of businesses, such as high end restaurants and furniture stores, that benefit from customers extending times in the store. Burger shops aren't one of those.

[theshrike79]

You don't own an EV do you?

I've literally driven past restaurants on road trips because there was nowhere to charge close by.

It's not whether I stay for a long time or not, it's whether I come in AT ALL. The map on my car shows be both restaurants and chargers, as do many EV-specific charging map apps. I just filter by "food+charging" and the rest might as well not exist for me.

Similarly I have family and friends with serious food allergies: If the restaurant isn't disclosing allergens in their menu up front and says "ask the staff", we go somewhere else instead of playing 20 questions with the waiter after parking and getting seated - and then discovering they have no idea what "actually gluten free" means.

And you don't charge an EV to 100% every time you stop, it's basic chemistry and physics. The last 20% takes as long to charge as the first 80%. A 20 minute stop at a burger shack's 300kW charger will easily give a modern EV tens of percent of extra charge (100km+) while people eat.

[LordDragonfang]

"Most people" with EVs charge while they sleep, because right now it doesn't make as much sense to buy an EV if you're in the actual majority that does not have access to a garage you can install a charger in. That fact is one of the major things slowing EV adoption.

[sehansen]

Those of us who live in apartments and charge our BEVs with public chargers also mostly charge while we sleep. If your battery is large enough for a week or two of normal use, leaving the car in a public AC charger overnight when you get down to 10% charge left is by far the easiest. And AC chargers are generally also cheaper than DC chargers.

[theshrike79]

I charge at the school across the street, it's a 3 minute walk from there to my house.

Granted, it's a tiny bit of a hassle compared to before when I had a charger at my parking spot - but not a massive issue. Mostly the problems come from people parking their ICE cars in front of the chargers because they're too lazy to find a parking spot.

[theshrike79]

You do know that people travel? I don’t need to charge when I’m in my home town, I can do that at home.

But when I’m travelling I’d rather charge a bit every time I stop rather than have one loong stop just to charge.

And I’m not talking about Joe’s Shack that has like 1.8 parking spots. More like McD or BK.

[8note]

> e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.

alternatively, i can trade more bulk for more battery. if its got a connector, why cant i put a bigger batter in the slot that sticks out?

[numpad0]

That brings back memories! Yes, many devices before iPhone had normalized internal batteries indeed had aftermarket extended batteries. They would come with matching bulged back covers to fit the significantly oversized battery.

[golem14]

That's true even today for HAM radio handhelds. There is a cottage industry of ever larger snap on batteries for Baofengs and others. Very handy.

Random thought: Maybe Apple should use radioisotope batteries to never have to change them, ever. I jest.

[TeMPOraL]

> Maybe Apple should use radioisotope batteries to never have to change them, ever. I jest.

They could make an RTG battery out of Promethium-147, a beta-emitter with half-life of 2.6 years and history of use in nuclear batteries, or Iron-55, an x-ray source with similar half-life. That would be perfect and totally on-brand for Apple, as the battery would naturally force the phone to be replaced in 3 years, and they'd have a solid safety/security justification for why any repair or replacement must be done in authorized Apple stores, by authorized personnel, with authorized parts and equipment. In a store where you could, oh so conveniently, just buy a new iPhone.

[hdgvhicv]

My early iPhones had external battery cases, which even when attached (when travelling a long distance) were smaller than modern iPhones in the important dimensions.

[tracker1]

And it was pretty great... No to mention the shell swaps, etc...

[Oxodao]

Thinkpad T480, with dual battery was a really great idea

[cogman10]

The main thing that makes all this hard to do is the form factor.

Give these phone batteries a standard geometry and interface and pretty much all these problems immediately go away. 3 prongs on the battery (ground, positive, data). A standard protocol so the battery can communicate things like SOC or acceptable charge rate with the charger. And viola, you are off to the races.

Yes, this will mean manufacturers will have a hard limit on how thin they can make their phones and a constraint on what designs they can employ.

[lwhi]

Ultimately the main benefit obtained from not allowing battery replacement, is an increase in sales of newer models.

While your reasoning has _some_ merit, it reads as an apologia for the status quo .. rather than an example of why we should prevent easy battery replacement.

[audunw]

The danger of batteries doesn’t have much to do with their capacity. Many solid state batteries are far safer than liquid electrolyte ones, while also having higher energy density.

[dzhiurgis]

Slop

[thelastgallon]

We don't need fast charging. Phones will be left on wireless charging surfaces, which will eventually be ubiquitous. Everyone hates usb-c plug in. Just leave it on a surface, pick it whenever you want.

We don't need to fast charge anything, phones or EVs. Slow charging preserves battery life and smart charging will charge whenever it is cheapest.

[Oxodao]

I've never seen anyone hate usb-c, what world do you live in? And on phones fast-charging's cost on the battery life expectancy is negligible[0]

Also, wireless charging is finicky and comes at a cost: way less efficient energy transfer.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLS5Cg_yNdM

[sham1]

Well hatered for USB-C for charging connectors seems to be strong in this thread alongside the dislike for being able to have changeable batteries.

Hell, this thread even has a person whose argument against USB-C is that mandating it will mean that the EU will get conquered by Russia.

[fingerlocks]

I hate USB-C. Hi. I do a lot of woodworking and the port easily clogs with sawdust and lint. It was very easy to clean it each day when I had a lightning connector, a common toothpick would suffice.

Now I have to purchase specialized non-marring micro tool scrapers to clean the port without damaging it. The scrapers break after a few cleanings, so this is an ongoing monthly recurring cost. Yeah I can charge wirelessly, but I still don’t want sawdust in my phone hole after a day of ripping wood.

[Oxodao]

Finally someone with an argument. I do hear why you dislike it, most people seems to do it without any reason... As it was said by someone else you might be able to cover it up somehow, either a rubber plug, or 3d print a small strip of plastic and put it in your case.

[nmcfarl]

I do ranch work in a place with a lot of iron in the soil. I often have these sand sized grains of dirt in my port. But I had it in a lightning days as well. I just hate ports.

Before MagSafe, this used to kill phones. Now my son has a phone without a port, but it’s not dead.

[Oxodao]

Those ports are most of the time, at least in the android land IDK about iphone, on daughter boards and easy to replace. Even though in a perfect world this should not happen, still it is possible to do without too much of a hastle

[numpad0]

Most of phone repair parts available to consumers are factory leaks. They are scraps and/or stolen stocks. They only exist because law enforcement in China is still, sort of strategically left, lacking. They are destined to go away as time goes by and/or parts are standardized and/or parts supply are legalized and/or mandated.

[Kirby64]

This seems like the ideal use case for those 'rugged' phone cases with flaps over the ports, no? Not ideal, but certainly a lot easier than having to clean gunk out of the port constantly.

[pshirshov]

why not to buy a rubber usb-c plug?

[jononor]

Yep that is annoying. There are USB-C magnetic charge adapters. It will prevent shit from getting into the slot, and easy to charge magsafe style. And of course you can easily take it out temporarily to use a standard USBC charging cable.

[numpad0]

Put the cap on it. Or get a phone with inbuilt flappy caps. True rugged phones all have them.

[eqvinox]

Toothpicks work great for this if you narrow them a bit with a knife.

As a woodworker I'm surprised you didn't have that idea :D

(Like, c'mon, toothpicks aren't immutable objects that fall out of question just because they're a bit too large)

[fingerlocks]

huh, when I make em thin it's too flimsy to get the packed sawdust out. Maybe I need to get some premium hickory toothpicks

[eqvinox]

Hmm, no idea if we have different toothpicks around here...

What also works (and funnily enough is also called a "toothpick") is the flat plastic thing some "swiss" pocket knives/tools (Victorinox brand) have.

[bmicraft]

Charging a 5Ah phone empty to full every day of the year adds up to all of about 7kWh. Nobody cares if you shave off a couple cents per year if the experience is worse.

[thelastgallon]

But slow charging will preserve the battery life a lot longer, which is more important.

[Zak]

Wireless charging, on the other hand generates heat, which is bad for the battery.

Slow, wired charging is the best combination for battery service life. A basic 5-10W power supply when the phone is going to be plugged in overnight is a universal method to achieve that; AccA on a rooted Android device with suitable hardware allows fine-grained control in software.

Even more important is to avoid charging the battery to full. The higher the voltage, the quicker it wears out.