[binarysolo]

Long-time Amazon seller/brand here, so here's the crux of the case:

1. Amazon is a search engine for product

2. It values being the cheapest destination for products (MFN most favored nation clause to sell on their website), and basically will suppress your listings from search if they can find you selling it cheaper elsewhere.

3. Amazon is def one of the more expensive ecom channels to sell, BUT they've got a huge audience as well due to decades of consumer-first policies, so sellers still go there because even if they have loyal customers with strong brand loyalty, you still end up with at least 30% of customers going to Amazon first after seeing your ads elsewhere + the lure of NTB new-to-brand customers you can acquire there.

So the crux of the case is dependent on whether they can do #2 with impunity -- which Amazon considers "consumer friendly" (but obviously it's win-win for them too).

[mgiampapa]

I order from Amazon because of their logistics. For some reason Amazon can ship for free at the same price as the producer's Shopify page that wants to charge me insane shipping because I live in a remote location.

Yes, I understand the price fixing is why they aren't selling for less on their own site, but Amazon's superpower is logistics, not years of goodwill and brand loyalty.

[yencabulator]

Along that line: I know that Lowe's, Home Depot, Chewy etc ship to me with speed matching or beating Amazon's (at least above a minimum purchase), so if what I'm buying is sold by those companies, Amazon does not get that sale.

Amazon is hugely anti-competitive, but their moat can be surprisingly shallow in some areas.

What Amazon has shown the rest of the industry is that shipping matters. Others are learning, at their own pace.

[binarysolo]

I mean, 1-2 day shipping is a huge part of their consumer-first policy, which is why every seller has got to do FBA -- for the longest time until COVID, the algorithm heavily penalized FBM fulfilled by merchant from ranking in the search results.

Once FBA started failing during COVID due to warehouse restrictions + sellers and 3PL third party logistics centers really stepped up did FBM even become a thing (and Amazon smartly gave access to Prime badges for FBM sellers who could deal with stringent shipping times).

IMHO the other big superpower Amazon has is to force sellers to eat returns and provide retroactive refunds when a product gets recalled.

[ssl-3]

It can be 1 or 2 day shipping. That's normally what I get at my house in Ohio. But it can also be a lot faster.

I took a trip to Tampa not so long ago for a few days to hang out with an old friend who I don't see very often, and also to help him with a long list of technical stuff around his house. I flew down in cattle class with no luggage, which meant that I didn't get to bring anything in terms of tools or materials. That left me a bit out-of-sorts -- I'm used to having a work truck with me that is full of the tools and stuff that I find useful.

And we got into all kinds of projects. We got a lot actually-finished, and we had a great time doing that stuff together.

But there was a recurring theme: We'd need to buy some widget or other to move forward. So I'd fire up my pocket supercomputer and start looking to see if Home Depot or Best Buy or Wal-Mart or whoever had it locally, and then start to figure out some ideal factor of best price and travel time.

Because that's just what I know how to do. In my life, when I want to get things done today and doing that requires more widgets, then I have to get in the car and drive to the store to get them -- ideally, with a good plan in place first.

And he wasn't having any of that. Over and over again, he'd shut me down and say "No, look. Just order it on Amazon. They'll probably bring it over today."

And over and over again, I'd look on Amazon and: Sure enough. They brought it over today. Sometimes, with 3 different deliveries in a single day as projects progressed and our need for widgets changed shape. Sometimes, late at night.

I don't think we drove anywhere at all while I was down there except to tool around the neighborhood to find some yard sales one morning, and another trip to pick up more liquor and some Chilean sea bass from Costco.

[jareklupinski]

exactly, and as a result you ended up paying 2-3x more for all those tools than if other businesses were allowed to compete normally

[ssl-3]

Eh?

I didn't address that specifically, but the prices were OK. They were within a sensible range of what local shops were charging for the same/similar widgets.

Sometimes Amazon was a bit more expensive (and they brought it over today). Sometimes, it was even a bit cheaper (and they still brought it over today).

The price was fine. It certainly wasn't 2x or 3x. It was always an OK price.

(Remember: Over and over again, I kept checking local stores. I didn't make that part of the story up. I didn't make any other part up, either.)

[jareklupinski]

correct, amazon's policies made it impossible for local stores to offer a deal, making sure you pay the 2-3x inflated sum no matter where you go, instead of what the real cost would be if fair competition were allowed

[lotsofpulp]

>IMHO the other big superpower Amazon has is to force sellers to eat returns and provide retroactive refunds when a product gets recalled.

I value free and easy returns above lowest price, especially in this day and age of rampant mis and disinformation. Which basically means I almost always buy from the big box stores (including Amazon).