[VanTodi]

In my area there is a saying like "it takes a village to raise a child". i believe that a good social network is not only important for the kid, but for the parents too. it helps so much to have a partner, grandparents, aunts/uncles, who can look over the kid just for a hour or 2, so you can get your rest. And its usually fun for the kids too. Now that i have 2 kids, a loving wife and 2 families around me, i have the highest respect for all the single moms/dads out there.

[CalRobert]

As immigrants with no local network, having kids is basically putting yourself under house arrest for a decade or so. You can post bail (pay a babysitter) for occasional reprieve. I mean sure you can go do outings with kids, but for most of them, do you really want to? I know mine aren't particularly enthralled by trips to the Rijksmuseum.

I don't think this is how humans usually raised kids...

[ray_v]

We're in the same boat. Feels like mostly our society doesn't value having children - it's by and large not a very well supported activity. Even more so if you don't have immediate family to help support you.

[CalRobert]

Where’d you go? We were told Ireland values children but that didn’t match our experience (we moved to the Netherlands which has been better at least)

[kakacik]

Dont go to Switzerland. I can sing praise on this country for hours, but supporting families with kids aint one of the positives, in contrary.

So far the worst aspect of being and staying here (apart from one specific immigration bureaucrat in Geneva, but thats a long and very specific story). Even rather backwardish France has this aspect figured out much better.

[CalRobert]

Beautiful country but as far as I’m aware pretty cold and socially hostile to outsiders… Too bad it pays so much better than most of Europe

[ray_v]

Not far ... just the other end of Ohio (SW Ohio from NE Ohio) ... But very much on our own

[mothballed]

If you go to the third world kids are all running in the streets while both parents work and grandparents not doing fuck all to watch them either. The most practical answer is to relax negligence laws back to a sane level where as long as you're not torturing them and they are fed, "society" stays the fuck out of the punishment process.

[CalRobert]

I’d rather they not get run over… but generally agree with you

[keybored]

This is why people critique the nuclear family—the degenerate village around the children that just consists of the parents, maybe grandparents at holidays. It’s a recipe for overworked adults.

[alphawhisky]

I've got a Mexican American friend that lives multi-generationally and loves it. He's a few years out of high school with a good job in management and a nice car, money in the bank. His older brother gets help parenting from Tio and the grandparents, and generally everyone gets along well. He's almost kept up with me in savings for property and I'm married (our pay is pretty similar, but I have dual income). American culture optimizes for wastefulness and puts too much of an emphasis on independence, especially when arrangements like this exist that actually can lead to greater individual freedom in the long run.

[tayo42]

> and generally everyone gets along well

That's a very important statement

I couldn't live with my grandma and couldn't live with my mom anymore. I needed space.

[angmarsbane]

I read an interview once with an American woman who moved to Italy with her Italian husband. They lived in the same apartment building as her in-laws and in the morning her son would walk down to Nonna's for breakfast.

I love the idea of family living within walking distance but in their own domiciles, like townhomes or apartments or condos in the same building. This is another great argument for mixed zoning. A 55+ condo building in the same neighborhood with single family homes for large families and smaller townhomes/apartments for families that are just getting started.

[VanTodi]

We are living on a Farm. So we have a huge main building where the aunts and grandma lives and we live in a different building. Kids can just run over, since it's no road in sight and everything. I feel rather blessed

[ButlerianJihad]

There is no nuclear family required anymore,

My parents are the village, and the village is the law.

https://youtu.be/skUUVejxDZc?si=unPgT-01QLAQ-lZB