[RiverStone]

I will tell you exactly what my Iranian wife said when I asked her about people congregating on the bridges after Trump said he’ll bomb them: she said (paraphrasing) “bomb them, they’re all regime supporters”.

The country is basically on the verge of civil war. The reason it’s not is because the anti-regime forces are disorganized with no clear leader, have no weapons, and rely on internet to organize.

[jamaliki]

With all due respect to you and your Iranian wife, just because someone has these views, does not mean that it represents the majority of the people of Iran. I am also Iranian and find support for war crimes, even if you disagree politically with the victims, to be horrendous.

[RiverStone]

That’s fair! I would love to hear your thoughts as an Iranian.

My only goal has been to surface conversations I’ve had with actual Iranians. I think that’s been missing from these Internet conversations, and I think it’s really helpful that people know what actual Iranians think.

Otherwise, you fall into the funny situation like what happened with Maduro, where Internet commentators were upset, while ordinary Venezuelans (and expats) were celebrating.

[dbdr]

> “bomb them, they’re all regime supporters”

Even those regime supporters are civilians. This is literally advocating for a war crime.

[grumple]

War crimes as a concept was invented by the current US hegemony to punish others, not to be bound by.

I think about it this way: would I have had any problem with the allies bombing Nazi rallies, even though they were mostly civilians? My answer is absolutely not. I feel the same way when I see pro-Islamic regime or pro-Hezbollah rallies. In fact, I think the limited repercussions for these extremist civilians - and their very tangible support for the regimes - is what keeps these movements alive and powerful. Cost to civilizations - military and civilian alike - is what ends wars.

[Arodex]

We agreed on the concept of war crimes after the horrors of WWII, so that it wouldn't happen again.

If you think bombing them is ok, then bombing you (or e.g. Trump supporters - you know, the ones who tried to throw the 2020 election) is ok too.

It cuts both ways.

[archagon]

I gotta say, that's really fucked up. Like, I'm Russian, I hate what Russia is doing, I think support for Putin in Russia is far higher than it has any right to be, but I'd never casually throw out a "bomb them all, they're all complicit." I think people with these sorts of opinions need therapy.

[throwawayheui57]

The other side (regime) publicly state “execute them all” and the response is “bomb them all”. To be clear, I’m not agreeing with the sentiments and agree that bombing the infrastructure is awful, just stating my observation of the state media vs opposition voices.

[gryzzly]

even Putin’s FSB with all its arbitrary arrests and torture in jail is very very far away from public lashing and hangings, from using actual children in real fighting (beyond kindergartens dressed as tanks which is disgusting but different than sending kids to demine fields or be used as human shields). The scale of torture and jailing is also different with Iran probably being closer to Stalin’s 1937.

[RiverStone]

I think that makes sense.

My impression is that Iran is much closer to a civil war than Russia is. It’s very polarized.

You have to put yourself in the mindset of someone against the regime. They feel that their country was hijacked by an islamic theocracy.

This is a regime that forces little girls to cover their body. Dancing and singing in public is illegal. Protesters are hanged.

My wife was sent home from school as a kid because her headband didn’t properly cover her forehead. At the age of 30 my wife still has trouble wearing shorts because she is self-conscious about showing her legs.

This is the kind of mental trauma that women have to recover from after leaving Iran. And I’ve only skimmed the surface.

There is zero sympathy from the anti-regime side for those who support the theocracy.

[gwd]

> At the age of 30 my wife still has trouble wearing shorts because she is self-conscious about showing her legs.

Just as an extra data point: I (a man) still feel weird about going running with a tank-top, because nearly 3 decades ago at a gym in Turkey I was politely asked to cover my shoulders.

I'm sure she and other Iranians have endured far far worse; my only point is that "Is uncomfortable showing skin" isn't necessarily evidence of that, as it doesn't necessarily take much to trigger.

[RiverStone]

I get what you’re saying, but if you’ve ever met someone who has grown up in an extremely religious environment, then you know what I mean.

Inculcating into young girls (and boys to some degree) that their bodies are shameful, sex is shameful, hell is real and waiting for them if they disobey, causes lifelong mental trauma.

It’s not unique to Islam. I’m sure there are extreme versions of Christianity and Judaism that also make women feel ashamed of their bodies.

[tdb7893]

Sure but that response about the people is entirely ignoring the vastly larger issue of does she (or, more importantly, people actually in Iran) want every single power plant bombed because that is what the threat was (also all bridges and some railroads). This is talking about the country being without power and stable food or water infrastructure for the foreseeable future and a lot of normal people dying (not particularly regime supporters)

[RiverStone]

My impression is that people don’t take Trump‘s words literally. Trump often exaggerates and plays word games. If you take every statement from Trump literally you’re going to be constantly triggered.

But even so, I think the response you’ll get from most anti-regime Iranians is “go for it, if it may let us get our country back”.

Iranians who wants the regime overthrown are very conflicted right now. They see their country being destroyed, but they also hate the regime and want a revolution.

They literally feel that their country was hijacked by an Islamic theocracy. They want that destroyed, so they’re thankful that Trump is attacking it.

How far should Trump go? I just saw news reports that Iranian expats and anti-regime Iranians were disappointed with the cease-fire. That aligns with the initial reaction from my family and the Iranian expats that I know.

So it’s a complicated answer… Do Iranians want all their infrastructure destroyed? If it would guarantee the regime was defeated I think most would say yes.

[amritananda]

I have never seen any diaspora have more contempt for their own people than Iranians. Thankfully more recent diaspora in the US are both more level-headed and diverse (coming not just from Tehran and a few other major cities but many other places and ethnic groups). I know an Azeri Iranian who was nothing but contempt for the regime (especially after thousands of protesters were murdered) but is horrified by what the US/Israel has been doing.

Diaspora communities are never representative of their home country. This is something I know from my own community, since selection bias leads to a very particular (and privileged) set of people with the means to emigrate, almost universally from a single ethnic group that is less than 11% of the total population. Perhaps you should consider whether the Iranians you know are representative of the Iranian population as a whole.

[RiverStone]

I would agree that there is some bias amongst expats, I think that’s a fair point.

I think saying diaspora “never represent” their home countries is an exaggeration.

All the Iranians in the US I know are first generation immigrants who have been here maybe 5-20 years. I’m not talking about second generation Iranians. They all still have family in Iran. And their views do not differ from their family.

My mother-in-law is the most anti-regime person I know, and she lives in Tehran. A bomb recently exploded nearby and broke all the windows in her house. But life goes on, Iranians are extremely resilient.

[thelastgallon]

> All the Iranians in the US Maybe thats the only demographic in the US? They are anti-regime and must clear interview at US consulate, can't exactly get into US if you are pro-regime?

[donkeybeer]

[flagged]

[RiverStone]

No, she’s not a monarchist, and she’s actually very uncomfortable with people referring to “prince” Reza Pahlavi.

I think she understands that every movement needs a leader, so she’s ok with Mr. Pahlavi leading that, i.e. a constitutional assembly. But beyond that she doesn’t recognize the monarchy

[joejohnson]

It's a good thing the people of Iran are not represented by these diaspora Iranians then

[pydry]

This is what a lot of diaspora are like when a country has had a western friendly puppet regime overthrown.

The people who left tend were often in a privileged position under the previous regime and the bitterness at having their privilege revoked often echoes through the generations.

They might feign concern for human rights when the regime they hate is violating them (i saw a lot of that when the alleged killing of tens of thousands of protestors) but it's the bitterness of lost privilege which truly drives them.

Ive seen it with Cubans, Venezuelans, Angolans, even the odd Russian.

[RiverStone]

I’m just giving my personal experience as a comparison.

I have not met a single Iranian expat who was in a privileged position. All the Iranian expats I know are in their 20s and 30s and were just very lucky to get a visa, many in the Obama years. I suppose there were some changes during Obama that allowed more Iranians to immigrate?

For my wife, her family is actually very anti-monarchist. Exactly because of the feeling that there were privileged and unprivileged class during the Shah monarchy.

My wife grew up middle/lower middle class in Tehran and did not have any privileges in life. She was lucky to get a visa to the US, worked 2 jobs + odd jobs all through college to afford it. Constantly scrounging and networking to survive.

That’s why I love first generation immigrants. I think they’re the hardest working, most resilient people you’ll ever meet.

[samrus]

Your wife doesnt live in iran im assuming? She wont risk her child being killed in preschool by a tomahawk, or having to live without electricity or transportation or drinking water because trump bombed it?

As someone from and in a thirdworld country, these expats can be even more arrogant and psychopathic than the imperialists they live under

[RiverStone]

My in-laws all live in Iran. My wife has many aunts, uncles, and cousins. I don’t even know how many people - it’s probably 20 to 30 people at least. All in Tehran.

My mother-in-law is the most anti-regime person I’ve met.