[JeremyNT]

> Back when it used military power to commit war crimes the world over, and gained or maintained financial capital supremacy from it? As compared to now, when it can only use military power to commit war crimes on a smaller scale, and is throwing away American hegemony in the process?

Such comments either are propaganda or they play into the hands of propagandists.

There is a huge difference in the degree of corruption and malfeasance of this administration. Implying that the current regime is so similar to prior ones downplays the critical importance of restoring competence.

[chii]

Or, it might be the case that the prior regime had tactfully hidden all of those things being accused by the GP's comment, and this regime is simply doing it in the open with no regard.

[estearum]

Even if this were true (which of course it's not), doing bad stuff in the open actually is far and more deleterious to the fabric of society than doing bad stuff in secret.

[TremendousJudge]

for which society? the American society, maybe? they get to feel good about themselves

for the societies all over the globe that have been the targets of such policies for more than a century, I think it's better to call a spade a spade. the non-American politicians and aristocrats that benefit from US imperialism get to hide much better if the Americans are "the good guys"

[estearum]

No even for other societies, it would be far worse if American politicians felt no imperative (moral, political, economic, or otherwise) to not behave like raving lunatics.

This is of course what we're seeing today, where Trump is just discovering his taste for utilizing American military power to achieve his whims.

Hopefully we get bogged down in Iran enough not to continue, but obviously as soon as we started the Iran conflict, the GOP was already talking about "Cuba's next" etc, which is obviously the start of an infinitely long list of places to "liberate."

This situation is far worse for everyone than the one where the US is mostly benign (despite mistakes) relative to its incredible power.

[Gud]

It is absolutely true. The USA has a history of making shit up, kill some million(s) of people, steal their oil.

The only difference is that Donald Trump doesn’t care about plausible deniability at all, unlike previous presidents,which is why the American public remembers (the demons) George Bush neutral or slightly positive. They should both have died in prison.

[_kulang]

This is an extremely popular view that recently has been disseminated and while based on fact, is emotional propaganda. It basically exists as a justification for Trump’ and this administrations actions, along the lines of “they’ve always done it, at least we don’t hide it” and gives them a combination of legitimacy and a strange sense of “doing the right thing”.

I understand that it’s true that the USA has been problematic in the past but in this case, the story being sold to people about the US “always” having been bad exists to convince people that there is no other way, and you either have to accept it or tear it all down. Interestingly both benefit the current administration

[Gud]

No, this is not “propaganda “ to justify anything Trump is up to.

The USA has not been “problematic”, it has enforced a particular ideology on the world with the rest of us unwilling participants.

The USA has repeatedly overthrown diplomatically elected leaders(Iran ironically being the best example, a democratic government toppled because it was stopping American business interests and democratising its oil resources) so the USAs ownership class can make their fortunes.

Sometimes , it has stopped elections, exterminated millions, set their villages on fire, because the people were picking the wrong ideology.

Remove your rose tinted glasses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

[estearum]

Yes those are all bad and you are naive if you think a USA that relishes brutality could not or would not be 1000x worse.

Militarily, the US can trivially eradicate entire countries. It is “only” our leadership and their sense of morals (imperfect and spotty as they are) that prevents this.

[delfinom]

Its baby boomers on their last hoorah as they head to their graves. Burning and taking everything with them.

Meh

[wickedsickeune]

JD Vance is 41 years old. Certainly not a boomer, and has aligning views with Trump

[mattalex]

Whether the US is capable of hiding their maleficence or not should not be an indicator of whether it is safe to deal with them. If your indicator for the US being a good partner in _anything_ is that "well we did corrupt things in the past, but people didn't use to care about it", then the US is still not a good partner.

It's not like the US has never e.g. openly threatened NATO allies with war: There is quite literally a standing law that allows the US president to invade the netherlands if any US military personnel is ever detained by the International Criminal Court. This law has been on the books for over 20 years and has the publically announced intention to prevent the US from being prosecuted for all the other atrocities committed in e.g. Iraq. This bill was supported by both democrats and republicans.

The reality is that the US' stance towards the rest of the world has not changed with the recent administrations (nor would I expect it to: Trump does not happen in a vacuum). What did change was willingness of the rest of the world to act on the US' actions.

[surgical_fire]

The US government always committed war crimes and all sorts of human rights abuses abroad.

The previous presidents were just more competent stewards of these activities.

In some ways, not being from the US, I don't dislike Trump. He may be a senile buffon and apparent pedophile, but at least he laid bare what the US truly stands for. He was elected twice after all, and still has substantial support.

At least other countries can stop pretending the US is in any way friendly.

[frm88]

May I recommend Chris Hedges' American Fascists The Christian Right and the War on America, published in 2007. The current situation didn't develop in a vacuum, it is the mushroom that shows how far the mycelium has spread and how old it is.

[Stevvo]

Your dislike for Trump is making you see things through rose-tinted glasses.

Do you not remember Abu Ghraib, or Gitmo?

When it comes to war crimes, this administration is no worse than those past.

[estearum]

I don't remember either of those involving threatening to starve or thirst millions of civilians as a weapon of war?

can you point me to some sources?

[saguntum]

fwiw i agree with you that the current situation is much worse than in the past, given all the horror's being done in the open without any nod toward reason, multilateralism, or public consent

take a look at this though, in the interest of examining past US actions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Ira...

[estearum]

I don't have rose-tinted glasses with regard to US actions in the past, especially in OEF/OIF. So many instances of horror in Vietnam, WW2, and so on.

But all of those things are the awful things that happen during war even with a military, political, and legal apparatus that tries to mitigate it.

We are now dealing with a regime that claims and will make no such efforts. The only reason the Iran war hasn't so far yielded the same horrors is because so far we haven't attempted to occupy Iran.

If we do, I absolutely promise you that a military populated by people who know they can be court martialed, jailed, or even executed for crimes against the local population will be significantly better behaved (even if imperfectly, per your article) than one that is told – from the very top – that they will be accountable for nothing except maximal brutality and lethality.

[Zardoz84]

The past was bad. But the current is far worse. Tell it to the people disappeared in the ICE concentration camps. Or to any trans people in any bad state.

[samus]

Yet