[NamTaf]

Finally.

The deluge of gambling ads on TV during Friday night footy is absolutely appalling. There’s a very robust conduit for normalising sports gambling through advertisements around the broadcasts and it’s clearly influencing young adults. I’ve noticed a dramatic uptick in how common it is compared to when I was that age.

[oezi]

I see absolutely no upside for a society to allow sports betting. The tax revenues don't justify the addiction, debts and devastated families.

[milkytron]

An argument I've heard is that by legalizing betting, it can be more easily monitored with regulation and reduce the amount of black market betting. People still bet when it's illegal, it just becomes harder to track, which makes it easier for gamblers to interfere with outcomes without detection.

It sounds kind of similar to the legalization of certain recreational drugs. For example, alcohol prohibition resulted in a massive black market with organized criminal gangs, and many places realized it's better to regulate it rather than prohibit it.

I think for gambling, we need better regulations, and the Australian government seems to think so too.

[tokioyoyo]

Almost nobody was betting in the black market before the legalization. Sure you obviously had some people, but friction was big enough where it was not worth it. Right now, there isn’t a single game where people are talking about the bets they made in NA.

Nothing should be black and white. Even for alcohol and drug abuse, we should look at each and evaluate.

[nradov]

I don't know about Australia but there was an enormous amount of black market sports gambling in the USA before it was widely legalized. People who were unaware of this were just oblivious or led very sheltered lives. Broad legalization may have been a net negative for society but it's a complex issue.

[bdangubic]

define enormous? before it was legalized I knew one mate that was a gambler. I don’t have a friend anymore who does not sports gamble, hardly have relatives that don’t sports gamble. die-hard fans of teams now don’t give a hoot if the team wins (especially in the regular season)… not saying this is not a complicated issue but to say market was enormous is very much removed from reality

[fblp]

Yep it's hard to build a large liquid market for both sides of the bet without a central platform being legal. Look at polymarket as another example of things that people wouldn't bet on if a (legal in some countries) platform didn't exist.

[mikkupikku]

Very few people gambled illegally. Putting some gangster out of business (Lol if you actually believe that) at the cost of addicting the entire working class to throwing away their money is bad math!

[awesome_dude]

Sorry, but what?

Illegal gambling has been rife for a very long time - the bookie down the pub taking bets on horses, games, whatever

Add to that that the Costigan Commission (1984) and the Fitzgerald Inquiry (1989) proved that illegal gambling was the foundational "river of gold" for organised crime in Australia.

[mikkupikku]

Illegal gambling at its peak was nothing compared to every store, restaurant and smartphone being a casino, advertised right out in the open.

[awesome_dude]

True - legalisation increased total gambling.

But your original claim was 'very few gambled illegally' which the historical record contradicts.

The Costigan and Fitzgerald inquiries showed illegal gambling wasn't just widespread - the profits funded other organised crime including the heroin trade.

We can debate whether legalisation was net positive without rewriting that history.

[girvo]

Yeah these people have no idea what they are talking about, you’re correct.

[bdangubic]

my grandma is not going to be looking for a black market bookie. some percentage of people will be no matter what though if you make penalties really severe you will significantly thin out this crowd.

without gambling though, pat mahomes would be making less money that I am making…

[fineIllregister]

> without gambling though, pat mahomes would be making less money that I am making…

It's not like he was broke when it was just beer and crypto ads. He made 10 million dollars his rookie year in the NFL before SCOTUS federally legalized gambling.

[bdangubic]

you take away sports gambling and his rookie salary will be $50k :)

[amomchilov]

Some amount? Sure. But not at this scale.

If people were just going to do it anyway, these gambling companies wouldn’t be pouring billions into advertising to stimulate demand

[Blikkentrekker]

Many dangerous things are legal simply because “people enjoy doing them” though.

People die during parachuting and climbing mount everest. What's the upside really beyond “People enjoy doing it and it's their own life.”?

[maerF0x0]

Meanwhile we keep truly destructive things like alcohol legalized...

For the freedom of normal folks to have 1 beer, 25% of the population is drinking 78% of the consumed alcohol.[1]

And before anyone brings up that myth there is no beneficial dose of alcohol. Even in the pro-wine studies it's been found that the benefit was just the fact it was grapes and that eating/drinking the grapes without fermentation is superior.

[1] https://www.recoveryanswers.org/research-post/alcohol-sales-...

[Blikkentrekker]

I think even the biggest hard drugs should be legal, again just because “people enjoy it”.

I'm fine with taxing it more in subsidized single-payer healthcare systems though but I also feel that should be done more consistently. I for instance also believe that say high heels should be taxed more because they're bad for one's health for similar reasons or unhealthy food but that's not “socially controversial” enough for that I get which is ultimately what it's always about. “health” is always just an excuse.

[SanjayMehta]

Think of it as evolution in action.

[NamTaf]

Gambling addiction impacts those around the person. They may deprive their dependents of opportunity and care. They may gamble away savings and require further support from the public purse. They may even steal (e.g. taking money from loved ones).

In many non-US countries, we consider the second-order effects due to having inviolable public safety nets. People who are their own victims due to vice are still afforded care because they’re still humans and citizens. That’s why we try to dissuade falling into those vices in the first place.

[Blikkentrekker]

The same can be said for anything that's dangerous. In fact, one can make this argument simply for people who elect to study some field that isn't really very financially viable.

[charcircuit]

It's fun and increases engagement with watching sports, being invested with what happens.

As a case study look at the impact sites like CSGOLounge had on the popularity of competitive CSGO.

[NamTaf]

As an avid follower of pro CSGO and CS2, I don’t doubt any of that. You’ll note I don’t advocate to ban gambling.

However, vices all come with negative aspects and it’s on us to discuss what the right overall balance is. IMO, when it comes to sports gambling advertisement, it’s way too freely available and normalised.

I’d also like to see a dramatic reduction of pokies (there’s an ABCA article from 2020 that I can’t currently find covering how much money Aussies saved by not being able to play them during lockdown, it’s staggering), but simultaneously fear for the mass closure of sports clubs and other third space venues if it were to happen. It’s a balancing act.

But at least for pokies, they’re deliberately walled away from the restaurant areas, etc. With TV ads, any easily-influenced kid watching their sporting heroes is exposed to this. It’s normalised along watching the sport itself. It’s no surprise there’s a direct conduit from that to young adults having gambling problems.

[awesome_dude]

The ads are going to continue from 8:30pm on, NRL has a game starting at 8pm this evening, the gambling ads will hit just before half time under this new legislation

[NamTaf]

From TFA:

“TV ads from betting agencies will be capped at three per hour, between 6am and 8:30pm, and banned completely from any live sports broadcasts during those hours”

I read that as even after 8:30pm, they’re still banned during live sports broadcasts. So none of this half-time odds update or whatever.

[bookofjoe]

I nicknamed ESPN in the US EBetPN