[milkytron]

An argument I've heard is that by legalizing betting, it can be more easily monitored with regulation and reduce the amount of black market betting. People still bet when it's illegal, it just becomes harder to track, which makes it easier for gamblers to interfere with outcomes without detection.

It sounds kind of similar to the legalization of certain recreational drugs. For example, alcohol prohibition resulted in a massive black market with organized criminal gangs, and many places realized it's better to regulate it rather than prohibit it.

I think for gambling, we need better regulations, and the Australian government seems to think so too.

[tokioyoyo]

Almost nobody was betting in the black market before the legalization. Sure you obviously had some people, but friction was big enough where it was not worth it. Right now, there isn’t a single game where people are talking about the bets they made in NA.

Nothing should be black and white. Even for alcohol and drug abuse, we should look at each and evaluate.

[nradov]

I don't know about Australia but there was an enormous amount of black market sports gambling in the USA before it was widely legalized. People who were unaware of this were just oblivious or led very sheltered lives. Broad legalization may have been a net negative for society but it's a complex issue.

[bdangubic]

define enormous? before it was legalized I knew one mate that was a gambler. I don’t have a friend anymore who does not sports gamble, hardly have relatives that don’t sports gamble. die-hard fans of teams now don’t give a hoot if the team wins (especially in the regular season)… not saying this is not a complicated issue but to say market was enormous is very much removed from reality

[fblp]

Yep it's hard to build a large liquid market for both sides of the bet without a central platform being legal. Look at polymarket as another example of things that people wouldn't bet on if a (legal in some countries) platform didn't exist.

[mikkupikku]

Very few people gambled illegally. Putting some gangster out of business (Lol if you actually believe that) at the cost of addicting the entire working class to throwing away their money is bad math!

[awesome_dude]

Sorry, but what?

Illegal gambling has been rife for a very long time - the bookie down the pub taking bets on horses, games, whatever

Add to that that the Costigan Commission (1984) and the Fitzgerald Inquiry (1989) proved that illegal gambling was the foundational "river of gold" for organised crime in Australia.

[mikkupikku]

Illegal gambling at its peak was nothing compared to every store, restaurant and smartphone being a casino, advertised right out in the open.

[awesome_dude]

True - legalisation increased total gambling.

But your original claim was 'very few gambled illegally' which the historical record contradicts.

The Costigan and Fitzgerald inquiries showed illegal gambling wasn't just widespread - the profits funded other organised crime including the heroin trade.

We can debate whether legalisation was net positive without rewriting that history.

[Teever]

So how wide spread was it?

Like is there a graph of illegal gambling participation by pop over time?

I've run in many different circles in my life and I've never really come across any sort of illegal gambling.

I know it exists[0], it just honestly doesn't seem very common.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JkkMBpQtU

[awesome_dude]

> Illegal bookmaking (SP)/Race fixing

> The race track, it appears, is a great meeting place for criminals. The Costigan Royal Commission (Australia 1984), the Connor Inquiry (Victoria 1983), the Moffit Royal Commission (New South Wales 1974) and the Fitzgerald Inquiry (Queensland 1989) revealed that a vast network of SP bookmakers exists throughout Australia. They found the monetary flow in the industry huge, and as such has the potential to finance many other illegal activities.

> Mr Justice Moffit warned that there was evidence to indicate that SP syndicates were in contact with major heroin smugglers and domestic drug distributors (New South Wales 1974).

> Connor estimated that the annual turnover for SP bookmaking was $1800 million in New South Wales and $1000 million in Victoria. Connor has said of illegal bookmaking: >> Illegal bookmaking is a multimillion dollar industry run by people who can get up to forty or fifty telephones and who, if their telephones are closed down, can get them in new premises a week later. Illegal bookmakers prosper, making millions of illegal dollars, simply because they do not pay income tax or betting taxes (Victoria 1983a, vol. 2, ch. 14).[0]

McMillen, J. (1996). "Gambling Cultures: Studies in History and Interpretation."

This academic study explains that SP bookmaking was a "submerged" culture. It operated through "runners" in pubs and massive illegal telephone exchanges. If you weren't a "punter" or part of that specific working-class pub culture, the infrastructure was invisible by design to avoid police detection. (unfortunately I cannot link you to a direct copy - but https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/97802039935... )

[0]https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi024....

https://henley.austlii.edu.au/au/other/cth/AURoyalC/1984/2.p... (It's a prick of a thing to search, but the phrase "River of gold" was used to describe the profits the union was taking from illegal gambling)

[hellojimbo]

Dont be dense, we are talking about "very few" in the context of draft kings which prints more money in 1 week than black market gambling has in years. The turnover in legal sports gambling in america is over 100b a year, this is larger than the gdp of most countries.

[girvo]

Yeah these people have no idea what they are talking about, you’re correct.

[bdangubic]

my grandma is not going to be looking for a black market bookie. some percentage of people will be no matter what though if you make penalties really severe you will significantly thin out this crowd.

without gambling though, pat mahomes would be making less money that I am making…

[fineIllregister]

> without gambling though, pat mahomes would be making less money that I am making…

It's not like he was broke when it was just beer and crypto ads. He made 10 million dollars his rookie year in the NFL before SCOTUS federally legalized gambling.

[bdangubic]

you take away sports gambling and his rookie salary will be $50k :)

[amomchilov]

Some amount? Sure. But not at this scale.

If people were just going to do it anyway, these gambling companies wouldn’t be pouring billions into advertising to stimulate demand