[nick238]

Nowadays it's about efficiency and cost-effectiveness. Sure, 99% of the time a Shahed-136 might "lose" against a Patriot, but a Patriot missile costs 200x what a Shahed does.

Laser and EWar approaches are going to be more successful long-term as the price per "shot" is dramatically less, but deployments are slow.

[jandrewrogers]

The US uses APKWS and similar against Shahed-136. These guided missiles are cheaper than the Shahed-136. Why would you assume the US uses Patriot missiles against a Shahed-136? That isn’t part of their doctrine and the flight profile is a poor fit.

These have been operational in the US military for almost 15 years now and are widely deployed in the Middle East. You may want to update your priors. The US military anticipated all of this.

While these are cheaper than the Shahed-136, lasers have the advantage of unlimited magazine depth, so it is obvious why the US would invest in that.

[ceejayoz]

> Why would you assume the US uses Patriot missiles against a Shahed-136?

It's a demonstrable fact they're using them against drones.

https://www.reuters.com/investigations/patriot-missile-invol...

https://www.wsj.com/world/america-downs-cheap-drones-with-mi...

[bawolff]

I can't read either of those because they are paywalled but ghe first paragraph of the first one doesn't seem to support your position.

In any case, almost everything i've read is that the majority of drones are shot down with APKWS, with a patriot sometimes used as a last resort if one gets through.

[ceejayoz]

Selected excerpts:

> In the statement, a Bahraini government spokesperson said the [Patriot] missile successfully intercepted an Iranian drone mid-air, saving lives.

> Wars in the Middle East and Ukraine have put a spotlight on how limited supplies of sophisticated missiles—including multimillion-dollar Patriot interceptors—are sometimes being used to defend against mass-produced drones that cost just a few thousand dollars.

> Gulf states are also spending big on the war. Nations including Saudi Arabia have launched multimillion-dollar Patriot interceptors and fired missiles from aircraft to take out Iranian drones.

The E-3 Sentry that got blown up was reportedly hit by drone. I'd guess they wish a Patriot had stopped that one.

[bawolff]

> Bahraini

Bahrain is not the usa. There are many reports that gulf states use patriot missiles much more freely than usa does.

> are sometimes being used to defend against mass-produced drones that cost just a few thousand dollars

"Sometimes" being the key word here. I think 1% of the time would technically constitute sometimes and changes the ecconomics considerably.

It should be noted the Shahed-136 drone that was mentioned above cost $100,000, not a couple thousand.

My position is not that it never happens, just that its relatively rare and a bit overblown in the media. Military does need to figure out better solutions, but the status quo is not use a patriot on every drone.

[ceejayoz]

> There are many reports that gulf states use patriot missiles much more freely than usa does.

I've seen the opposite claimed; that the US is surprisingly wasteful with their expensive ammo.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/us...

"“Often they [the US and its allies] were firing thoughtlessly,” the officer said. “For example, they used SM-6 missiles — from a ship, a very good anti-missile missile. This missile costs about $6 million, and they used it to shoot down a Shahed costing $70,000.”"

> It should be noted the Shahed-136 drone that was mentioned above cost $100,000, not a couple thousand.

That's the marked-up export cost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136

"various estimates for domestic production cost range from $10,000 to $50,000"

[bawolff]

> Sure, 99% of the time a Shahed-136 might "lose" against a Patriot, but a Patriot missile costs 200x what a Shahed does.

From what i understand, i think people use other systems than patriots to shoot down Shaheds except as a last resort. So the cost difference is bad, but its not nearly as bad as it would be if you were using something like a patriot for every drone.

[throwawayffffas]

Working electronic counter measures are deployed right now.

Anti air guns work, that includes the 5-inch guns on all warships that can engage the drones at over 10 kilometers.

Laser guided rockets work as well, a single F-16 can carry at least 42 laser guided rockets and the pod it needs for targeting.

[Tade0]

Ukraine has been striking down Shaheds with even cheaper drones for several years now.

No reason to use unproven technology when there's a practical means available.