[JPKab]

I worked in the Pentagon for 10 years, and got my beak wet with neural nets there very early, back when we were using Playstation 3s for their GPUs.

I was staunchly against the Iraq war, but even when Bush was president I didn't let it compromise my patriotism.

The amount of people on here who ignore the fact that Iran was the primary enabler of Hamas' attack on 10/7/23, and therefore sowed the seeds of the destruction of Gaza, is insane. Basically, if Trump does a thing, they are against it, independent of the thing. There is no principle, just reactionary hatred. If Biden had launched this war, none of these people would have had a problem with it. I am 100% positive on that assumption.

[galangalalgol]

It seems like about 20% of people judge the actions of a us administration independent of their partisan positions. I am recently joined and cannot claim it is from any virtue on my part. A backlash against an attempted autocratic takeover is a common starting point for successful ones by an opposing party. Leftist autocratic coups are only slightly rarer than rightist ones. We are in the middle of an attempted rightist one, but that doesn't mean we are safe if we remove them.

[mcphage]

> Basically, if Trump does a thing, they are against it, independent of the thing.

Because on top of doing terrible things, the non-terrible things he does, he does incredibly badly.

> There is no principle, just reactionary hatred.

No, we’re all good little Bayesians around here.

> If Biden had launched this war, none of these people would have had a problem with it.

You’re really missing what’s going on here. The reason that people liked Biden is that he would not have launched this war.

[what]

> The reason that people liked Biden is that he would not have launched this war.

No, they liked him because he wasn’t Trump. And then they liked Trump more after having him.

[nozzlegear]

I liked Biden because he's a genuinely good statesman, with decades of experience building bipartisan relationships (some admittedly bad, most good) both domestically and internationally. I didn't vote against Trump in 2020, I voted for Biden. And you can bet your sweet bippy that I'd do it again.

[mcphage]

> And then they liked Trump more after having him.

And it only cost them their country. Not bad!

[nozzlegear]

>If Biden had launched this war, none of these people would have had a problem with it. I am 100% positive on that assumption.

I think you're wrong here. As a Biden stan who's gone to the mat debating Biden's policies here on HN many times in the past, he lost pretty much all of the remaining good will he had by defending and supporting Israel for so long after it became clear what they were doing in Gaza. Biden wouldn't be getting a free pass in the Middle East if it were helping Israel's goals (ignoring the fact that Biden is much more of a dove than Trump).

[anon7000]

I highly disagree, one clear thing conservatives and liberals largely agree on is no more wars in the Middle East. It’s astonishing to me that Trump supporters who voted for an isolationist policy are happy with him intervening in the Middle East (not to mention South America) again.

Yes, I am “reactively” hating our president for starting wars without congressional approval and with very handwavy explanations. Besides, he has a track record for saying whatever the fuck he wants if he thinks people will like it, so you can’t trust the words from his mouth anyways. It’s pretty infuriating, actually.

I would be much happier if there was a clear justification and rational explanation for the president starting more wars in the Middle East. And yes, because Biden has a slightly better baseline of not telling bold-faced lies, I could see more people giving the benefit of the doubt at first. But overall, liberals did not like Biden very much. Trump, on the other hand, has a pretty hardcore base of people who don’t seem to care what he says or that he does/says the opposite of what he used to say. Pretty weird.

By the way, this opinion is not formed by reading or listening to any kind of mainstream media. It’s formed from listening to the words coming out of Trump’s mouth for the past fucking decade.

[dotancohen]

If "no more wars in the middle east" means that America can not protect herself from a nation that regularly chants Death To America, then it really means "I'd rather see America as a society fail than stand up and defend myself".

[donkeybeer]

Words are violence!!!

Chanting for death to any country or religion is not violence dude. Until and actually Iran launches an attack on the USA.

Iran didn't start this war, America and Israel did, while right in the middle of a pretend negotiation with them.

I believe this is a strong sign that any time Israel or America are asking to negotiate with any country, they should prepare a full scale military action ready for the real "negotiation".

edit: Are you a dual citizen? Everyone has a right to free speech of course and to support or not support any country or cause. But if you feel so strongly about a foreign country, why don't you be honest with yourself and pick a lane. I say this to everyone, not just Israeli, but Chinese, Dutch, any other dual citizens.

[dotancohen]

You are correct, words are not violence.

Arming the Huthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and various Iraqi militias _is_ violence. When an aggressor with a history of violence says that they are coming for you next, it is prudent to believe them. Iran has been chanting Death To America and Death To Israel for decades. They have been attacking Israel and are developing technology to attack the United States. It is the United States' responsibility to ensure that the attack will not come.

Claiming that Iran is not violent is a lie. Promoting the idea that the US should wait to be attacked first is a nice way to allow Iran to arm properly and ensure US interests are sufficiently harmed.

[donkeybeer]

Iran is violent...to its own people yes. If we want to play the proxy game then there is an unending list of proxies used by the USA all over the world to commit terrorism and war. Then by that the USA and Israel should be nuked multiple times over in proportion with the extreme level of proxy violence they commit. Since you haven't said this about the USA, then I will have no choice but to say you are lying about Iran and applying a different standard.

[dotancohen]

I'll bite. Maybe I'm ignorant. Who are the US proxies committing terrorism and war?

[donkeybeer]

Most importantly, Iran has always complied with audits to its nuclear program. I would much more urgently worry about the only country in the middle east that lies about having nukes, refuses to get them audited and continually starts wars with anyone and everyone, and proclaims everything under the sun as "antisemitism" and then gins up military action against supposed "antisemites" whenever it can. Hundreds of illegal nukes in the hands of such a volatile entity are grounds for immense world wide existential concern.

[dotancohen]

I know who you are implying, so go ahead and mention a single war that they have started.