[dotancohen]

You are correct, words are not violence.

Arming the Huthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and various Iraqi militias _is_ violence. When an aggressor with a history of violence says that they are coming for you next, it is prudent to believe them. Iran has been chanting Death To America and Death To Israel for decades. They have been attacking Israel and are developing technology to attack the United States. It is the United States' responsibility to ensure that the attack will not come.

Claiming that Iran is not violent is a lie. Promoting the idea that the US should wait to be attacked first is a nice way to allow Iran to arm properly and ensure US interests are sufficiently harmed.

[donkeybeer]

Iran is violent...to its own people yes. If we want to play the proxy game then there is an unending list of proxies used by the USA all over the world to commit terrorism and war. Then by that the USA and Israel should be nuked multiple times over in proportion with the extreme level of proxy violence they commit. Since you haven't said this about the USA, then I will have no choice but to say you are lying about Iran and applying a different standard.

[dotancohen]

I'll bite. Maybe I'm ignorant. Who are the US proxies committing terrorism and war?

[donkeybeer]

You really don't know about Contra? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras

It was a really massive thing.

or the Mujahiddeen.

Oh look, the list is so long there's an entire article about it, fun:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_state-sponso...

So tell me, if Israel is justified in invading Iran due to alleged proxies of Iran attacking them, would you agree that all these countries should invade the United States?

[dotancohen]

Alright, help me out on this.

The Contras were anti-Marxist central American revolutionaries, yes? The Marxists overthrew the president of Nicaragua, and the US supported them, along with other nations. Israel is mentioned as being an ally, but is not mentioned in any other capacity in the article. The US was funding them with arms sold to Iran, in the hope that Iran would pressure Hezbollah to release American hostages. The Contras were found to be terrorists, that the CIA claimed were due to poor discipline, and then the Contra leader was executed.

Did I get that right? Seriously fill in the blanks for me, the Wikipedia page seems written for somebody who already knows the story. I also read part of the linked Iran-Contra page hoping it would shed some light.

[donkeybeer]

Yeah "poor discipline" /s. It was well known what the Contras were engaging in. And they are far from the only terrorist group the USA has actively sponsored. I do not think Israel is involved in this. These were examples of America funding and supporting terrorism all over the world. So if you say that Iran deserved to be invaded despite not having physically attacked anyone else but due to supposed proxy agents activities, then what should countries do to the USA who has funded much larger and worse terrorist networks?

[dotancohen]

Was the intention of the United States, when funding the Contras, specifically to murder people? Did the United States publicly support and legitimise murder, rape, and hostages as a political tactic?

Serious question. I don't see any evidence they did.

[donkeybeer]

Most importantly, Iran has always complied with audits to its nuclear program. I would much more urgently worry about the only country in the middle east that lies about having nukes, refuses to get them audited and continually starts wars with anyone and everyone, and proclaims everything under the sun as "antisemitism" and then gins up military action against supposed "antisemites" whenever it can. Hundreds of illegal nukes in the hands of such a volatile entity are grounds for immense world wide existential concern.

[dotancohen]

I know who you are implying, so go ahead and mention a single war that they have started.

[donkeybeer]

This very war being one?

[dotancohen]

This very war that began with Iranian agents invading Israel, taking hostages, beheading people, raping women, murdering the elderly in their homes?

By what conceivable measure do you think Israel started it?

[donkeybeer]

You are extremely confused. Gaza is not Iran.

[dotancohen]

The Gazans are armed by Iran. Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for Palestine Liberation, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the Popular Resistance Committee, the Mujahideen Brigades, and the Islamic Republic all claim this.