[magic_hamster]

Anyone thinking they can talk their way into controlling Iran, a fundamentalist fanatic country with a very loud and visible doctrine literally calling to destroy the west, is delusional. The western "avoid conflict at all cost" approach is extremely detrimental.

[JasonADrury]

> Iran, a fundamentalist fanatic country

United States, a fundamentalist fanatic country: https://bsky.app/profile/gregsargent.bsky.social/post/3mhgag...

[srean]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47469696

[ignoramous]

> Anyone thinking they can talk their way into controlling Iran, a fundamentalist fanatic country with a very loud and visible doctrine literally calling to destroy the west, is delusional

Yeah, what's it about peoples of the third world that they're always fanatical, that they're always out to destroy the first world... https://theconversation.com/orientalism-edward-saids-groundb... / https://archive.vn/HoEk5

[srean]

If US takes down their democracy and downs their domestic passenger jets, fight a proxy war with chemical weapons through Saddam Hussein that alone kills 20~30 thousand, no country is going to respond to that with flowers in their hair.

Loved your link, but I doubt it is going to change anyone who thinks Israel and US are doing the god's work here.

[seanmcdirmid]

Once you simply kill all the leaders, there is no one left to negotiate with.

Iran is also oddly moderate from the region (beyond the whole death to America thing).

[donkeybeer]

Of course Israel and the current US government are violent religious fanatics who are using made up crap like the Bible and Torah to motivate the war.

The nuclear armed violently psychopathic state in the Middle East that still lies about nukes is the one that must be attacked not the country that allowed all audits of their nuclear program. We should conduct an operation to decommission or transfer in safe keeping to a neutral power all of Israel's illegal nukes and impose crippling sanctions on them for their lying on this extremely serious matter.

[dlubarov]

> lies about nukes

Such as? Ambiguity (or not sharing information) isn't a lie.

[donkeybeer]

Lying about nukes until Mordechai Vanunu outed the program. Iran has been cooperative in letting its nuclear program being audited, your country like the countless "execptions" it claims for itself does not permit any audits.

You tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel?

Israeli nukes must be brought under audit and transferred or decommissionied urgently by neutral third parties, it is a very grave matter.

[dlubarov]

> Lying

Again do you have some sort of example or evidence?

> your country

I'm not Israeli

> the countless "execptions" it claims for itself

What exceptions? They don't need an exception to an agreement that they never consented to.

> played games about nukes

It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

> transferred or decommissionied

Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

[donkeybeer]

Who said anything about the NPT? The exceptions are to such things as audits of nukes which the other party here, Iran has had no problems with. Israel also claims exception and offense to the ICCPR which was one of the examples I had in mind of how Israel always seems to want "exceptions" for perfectly normal things.

>It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

Nobody is expecting them to divulge any intelligence about its nuclear weapon systems. Why do Israel supporters always exaggerate and invent things not said by anyone? We ask Israel to simply be subject to similar audits of its nukes as Iran was, being like Iran and several other countries in that region a volatile and violent country. Illegal nukes in such a country should be a subject of concern.

And suppose Iran walks out of NPT, I have a feeling you'd still want to interfere and bomb their attempts at making nukes. So please do not lie that it is anything about the NPT.

>Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Who said I want Israel to give up its means of defence? I only wish for them to be subject to standard audits and inspections.

>Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Israel's origin is a long and complex story. No entity in that region is blameless, Israel included.

Again, you tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel? Obviously they would not wish to divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

[dlubarov]

> Illegal nukes

What would be illegal about them? Israel never agreed to the NPT.

> Nobody is expecting them to divulge any intelligence about its nuclear weapon systems.

Even if Israel could trust a group of foreign auditors not to leak any military secrets, what information would you hope to gain from the exercise? Confirmation that Israel does have nuclear weapons, which we already know in practice anyway?

> you'd still want to interfere and bomb their attempts at making nukes

Only as long as a regime with an official stance of "Death to America and Israel" is in charge.

[donkeybeer]

>Again do you have some sort of example or evidence?

There is discrepancy between what Vanunu said and what the government of Israel said. Evidence points to Vanunu being truthful, thus naturally, the Israeli government are liars.

[dlubarov]

> and what the government of Israel said

Again do you have a particular statement in mind?

[wolvoleo]

I don't think they had any reason to destroy us until trump decided to kick the hornet's nest. In fact they were quite reasonable and agreed to inspections of their nuclear programme which is also something Trump broke before, and now with his petty war.

I mean they hate Israel way more than us and they never attacked them either (until this war obviously). And regime change was already happening there slowly. They would have become more moderate, the public opinion inside Iran was more and more against them especially since what they did to the protesters.

This war was unnecessary and only cemented the regime's hold on their people by giving them an external enemy.

[magic_hamster]

You are just uninformed.

Iran has sponsored, built and trained organizations all over the middle east so they could destroy Israel: Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen, Hezbollah in Lebanon and groups in Iraq are all proxies propped up by Iran.

Iran was the first to attack Israel, this happened in 2024 when Israel killed Nasrallah (Hezbollah) and Iran fired hundreds of ballistic missiles directly at Israel.

Iran hates the US way more than Israel, but Israel is closer so obviously they are directing their efforts according to what's plausible. Iran calls the US and Israel "the big satan" and "little satan" in almost all internal communication. Just a couple of weeks ago the entire Iranian parliament chanted "death to America" and "death to Israel" (you can see the videos online). Iran had US flags laid out on the floor of their facilities so that anyone going by will walk over the US flag.

Despite being very uncomfortable, the war is probably necessary because as seen by Iran's attack on Diego Garcia, they have way longer range than previously thought, they have a deposit or military grade uranium enough for 10-12 bombs, they were completely dishonest about their nuclear programs, and waiting until Iran had nukes meant you couldn't ever stop them. You'd have another North Korea but ten times worse, as the Iranian regime is truly a fundamentalist insane leadership. Trump may be unhinged but he's right about Iran using nukes if they had them.

[srean]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47469696