[donkeybeer]

Of course Israel and the current US government are violent religious fanatics who are using made up crap like the Bible and Torah to motivate the war.

The nuclear armed violently psychopathic state in the Middle East that still lies about nukes is the one that must be attacked not the country that allowed all audits of their nuclear program. We should conduct an operation to decommission or transfer in safe keeping to a neutral power all of Israel's illegal nukes and impose crippling sanctions on them for their lying on this extremely serious matter.

[dlubarov]

> lies about nukes

Such as? Ambiguity (or not sharing information) isn't a lie.

[donkeybeer]

Lying about nukes until Mordechai Vanunu outed the program. Iran has been cooperative in letting its nuclear program being audited, your country like the countless "execptions" it claims for itself does not permit any audits.

You tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel?

Israeli nukes must be brought under audit and transferred or decommissionied urgently by neutral third parties, it is a very grave matter.

[dlubarov]

> Lying

Again do you have some sort of example or evidence?

> your country

I'm not Israeli

> the countless "execptions" it claims for itself

What exceptions? They don't need an exception to an agreement that they never consented to.

> played games about nukes

It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

> transferred or decommissionied

Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

[donkeybeer]

Who said anything about the NPT? The exceptions are to such things as audits of nukes which the other party here, Iran has had no problems with. Israel also claims exception and offense to the ICCPR which was one of the examples I had in mind of how Israel always seems to want "exceptions" for perfectly normal things.

>It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

Nobody is expecting them to divulge any intelligence about its nuclear weapon systems. Why do Israel supporters always exaggerate and invent things not said by anyone? We ask Israel to simply be subject to similar audits of its nukes as Iran was, being like Iran and several other countries in that region a volatile and violent country. Illegal nukes in such a country should be a subject of concern.

And suppose Iran walks out of NPT, I have a feeling you'd still want to interfere and bomb their attempts at making nukes. So please do not lie that it is anything about the NPT.

>Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Who said I want Israel to give up its means of defence? I only wish for them to be subject to standard audits and inspections.

>Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Israel's origin is a long and complex story. No entity in that region is blameless, Israel included.

Again, you tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel? Obviously they would not wish to divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

[dlubarov]

> Illegal nukes

What would be illegal about them? Israel never agreed to the NPT.

> Nobody is expecting them to divulge any intelligence about its nuclear weapon systems.

Even if Israel could trust a group of foreign auditors not to leak any military secrets, what information would you hope to gain from the exercise? Confirmation that Israel does have nuclear weapons, which we already know in practice anyway?

> you'd still want to interfere and bomb their attempts at making nukes

Only as long as a regime with an official stance of "Death to America and Israel" is in charge.

[donkeybeer]

Why not. If we take words as violence, how about the dreams of violent annexation to achieve the so called Greater Israel. Or statements by Israeli's of threatening to nuke Rome and the entirety of Europe. I have very little trust in Israel or Iran, both are crappy countries high on fumes of religion and nationalism and constantly belligerents. Though funnily this war was started by Israel and America unprovoked while pretending to negotiate with Iran, after of course a series of murders of negotiators. Actions are louder than words. It shows far more who is more unpredictable, violent and backstabbing liars. I trust Israel today even less than I trust Iran, thus we should treat them just like any other untrustworthy and volatile entity such as by conducting thorough and 24x7 audits of their nuclear programs.

I am neither Israeli nor Iranian. They can bomb and kill each other all they want as long as they don't involve anyone else. And they will continue bombing and killing each other as they are both driven by the classic cause of endless wars: religion and nationalism. I do not think one side better than other. I considered Israel mildly better but I had to change my stance. Being that I am not a fan of either country, I would prefer either Israel's nuclear capabilities be incapacitated or Iran develop nuclear capabilities as a balancing factor.

[donkeybeer]

>Again do you have some sort of example or evidence?

There is discrepancy between what Vanunu said and what the government of Israel said. Evidence points to Vanunu being truthful, thus naturally, the Israeli government are liars.

[dlubarov]

> and what the government of Israel said

Again do you have a particular statement in mind?

[donkeybeer]

"We neither confirm nor deny" then prosecuting the man who "confirmed" by illegally kidnapping him from a neutral foreign country.