[jwr]

The EU, unfortunately, has shown to be very susceptible to this kind of lobbying in the past. We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition. I would be very, very worried. (EU citizen)

[roysting]

The EU puts a nice shine on things, but there are systemic and fundamental characteristics of the EU that not only make it more susceptible to "lobbying" and ignoring the electorate; which are also far more difficult to change by that electorate than in the USA where we still have direct elections of individuals not party lists (in most cases) that cause total loyalty to the party, not the constituency.

[ozlikethewizard]

But the EU also doesn't have the same level of power as the US federal government. It's a loosely federated coalition of seperate nations, not one entity.

[roysting]

That was the idea of what the EU would be ... now it dictates what people can eat and do even though it is not actually a legitimate or sovereign government, while national/local elections are effectively meaningless exercises as even and especially in Europe, the local elected officials generally will be loyal to the party that can and will protect and bequeath benefits upon them over any local constituents. The EU was and is a con job. Unfortunately, you still believe the old promise of "massive returns with zero risk", until you want to withdraw your earnings.

"A loosely federated coalition of separate nations, not one entity" is actually a very good description of what the USA was before the Civil War and would technically need to abide by in order to be Constitutionally valid and legitimate; but alas, we have whatever this world dominating empire is that wraps itself in the branding and stolen identity of the United States of America, a literal antithesis of what the founders created. It is why there has always been such an intense and relentless propaganda effort to demonize "states' rights", the equivalent of which legitimate European sovereign countries and people will likely also face if the plans to the powers that are seeking to conquer the whole planet succeed. You will be told, your "loosely federated coalition of separate nations" have no right to claim sovereignty or what we call "state nullification", i.e., "states' rights" to simply nullify and invalidate any federal law that is a violation of the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, i.e., the right of states to anything not explicitly conferred upon the Federal government.

Actually, you don't even have to wait, there have been several examples already that proved without a shadow of a doubt that EU countries are not only no longer sovereign, i.e., "loosely federated coalition of separate states" when certain states disagree or do not wish to go along/vote for what the unelected body of the EU Commission conjures as legislation. You are just visiting the dungeon until you want to leave and the gate has been shut on you.

[ozlikethewizard]

Without even needing to engage with your argument it falls apart because nations can leave the EU at will. Without getting into the Brexit weeds its proof, we did it. Can't be a tyrant if people can just say no.

[bootsmann]

The Swiss eID is designed the way it is to comply with the EUs digital ID proposal so I wouldn't doom this early.

(this one: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eudi-regul...)

[boondongle]

This is because it's not an EU/Canada/US thing as much as some would like to make it. It's a "losing that one election" thing. "What about the Children" always sells. What the EU/Canada have is that the US got hit with this wave first so they can see the results. That's a data point the American Voter only had in theory, not in example form. The recent uptick of nationalism has people thinking there's some essentialism between states and there really isn't - anyone who's travelled in more places than the city knows it.

[dotandgtfo]

What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

[timmmmmmay]

"repeatedly struck down" means somebody keeps bringing it back

[dotandgtfo]

They're proposals by a minority. I'd like to see it go to see chat control go to grave permanently, but I'd also rather not that the democratic system allows for the permanent barring an impossible to define class of proposals from even being proposed. Or do you have other solutions?

[jonathanstrange]

I'm definitely for creating EU directives that enhances digital privacy rights and sovereignty to block whole classes of privacy-endangering surveillance proposals in the future. That seems like the best solution to me. It's much better than allowing those proposals to be made again and again until they are passed in some shady package deal. Even if such a proposal is struck down by local laws, constitutions, or the ECHR, once they have the foot in the door, they will only be modified minimally to comply with the constitution.

[miroljub]

The fact that it has to be repeatedly fended off and that the EU regime still tries to push it is a prime example of lobbying^H corruption. They won't give up until they pass. What more do you need?

[munksbeer]

> that the EU regime still tries to push it

Sorry, what is this "EU regime"? I'm not understanding the logic in your post. The people pushing it are certain elected officials of member nations.

[miroljub]

I use the same terminology for EU officials that they themselves use when they describe corrupt regimes with low legitimacy they don't control.

[munksbeer]

Ok, but the EU officials are not the ones that keep pushing the chat control agenda. This is coming from certain MPs from the member states.

[latexr]

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

So far. But they’ll keep lobbying and we’ll need to keep fighting.

> What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)?

Digital Omnibus is another.

https://noyb.eu/en/gdpr-omnibus-eu-simplification-far-remove...

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/eu-digit...

[dotandgtfo]

> We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition.

This implies that regulation is codified. The clear pattern of EU digital regulation doomerism is generally pointing at shitty proposals which aren't approved and codified in law.

Digital omnibus is another proposal.

If "rammed and rushed laws" is legitimately a widespread issue, you should be able to find a good example of something codified which is not just a proposal?

I'm not saying we don't have to fight. But vocal opposition to proposals which ultimately don't make it into law is the system working exactly as intended.

[latexr]

You’re replying to the wrong person. The point you’re quoting was made further upstream.

[deaux]

https://noyb.eu/en/project/dpa/dpc-ireland

GDPR is entirely unenforced, it's not worth the paper it's written on, and this is due to lobbying. The situation continues to this day. The DPAs simply throw reports of violations into the trash bin.

It's hilariously transparent - Ireland recently (less than 6 months ago) added a former _Meta lobbyist_ to their DPA board [0].

US Big Tech is now spending a record €151 million per year on lobbying the EU [1], and it's completely implausible to believe they're doing that with 0 RoI. "The number of digital lobbyists has risen from 699 to 890 full-time equivalents (FTEs), surpassing the 720 Members of the European Parliament (MEPs). A total of 437 lobbyists now have continuous access to the European Parliament. Three meetings per day: Big Tech held an average of three lobbying meetings a day in the first half of 2025, which speaks volumes about their level of access to EU policymakers." It's impossible that this doesn't influence things.

[0] https://noyb.eu/en/former-meta-lobbyist-named-dpc-commission...

[1] https://corporateeurope.org/en/2025/10/revealed-tech-industr...

[saithir]

Extending one organization's results to saying "completely unenforced" is definitely something, considering the ~billion of fines per year.

[GJim]

> GDPR is entirely unenforced,

The fact that in the UK/EU no reputable company is now sharing data without our explicit opt-in permission suggests you are talking bollocks.

As for disreputable companies.... don't do business with them!

[hagbard_c]

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

They can try as often as they want and they only have to win once. We - as in those who don't want this Orwellian monster to be written into law - have to win all the time.

[ozlikethewizard]

Right but thats just the system working as intended? Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.

[miroljub]

> Right but thats just the system working as intended?

No, it is a one way street and thus creates an imbalance. EU regimes never push new legislation that gives more rights to their citizens, only try to limit them again and again.

> Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised.

Gay marriage is a good example. It got passed despite being unpopular. In many countries where it was pushed by force from above, from the EU to the national level, it is still unpopular.

> Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.

The issue with democracy as we have it in the EU is the imbalance of power and responsibility. Given the EU regime's decisions in the last few decades, I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.

[orwin]

I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist, and directives (accompanied by fines) is the main way for the EU to try to push laws on states (the other way if having a citizen go the the EUCJ against his own state, but that almost never ends in law changes).

> I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.

Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?

[miroljub]

> I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist

Not an EU directive. This was more a comment about various EU member states, which pushed it against the will of own citizens.

> Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?

Every directive. There was no single directive that had popular support from all member state populations. But the EU regime decides something and boxes it through the EU Commission and then uses the EuGH to force it upon all members.

Examples?

At least some EU regimes and people are against Russian sanctions and Ukraine support, they get bullied until they yield.

Illegal migration: there's no single EU country where the population supports it, yet they all got bullied to accept and support criminal migrants.

Electric cars, CO2, maybe not the majority but many country populations are against it, yet decisions get forced upon every single state.

Now, for every single topic you may say it's an exception, that it must have been like that, but in the end, if the wish of population is ignored on so many levels on so many topics, EU can be seen only as an illegitimate, corrupt regime trying to mess up everything. To the point, that even the Chinese regime feels less invasive, at least they care about the basic needs of the majority of their people.

[hagbard_c]

For the downvoters, here it comes again:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47522709

[abc123abc123]

Yep. Sadly the EU is more or less lost, and freedom online will be squashed. I would not be surprised if age verification will tie in with the EU digital wallet, and with the EU democracy shield surveillance project, so that any opposition to Brussels ideological stance will get you disconnected from your bank, money, purchases, and your ability to ID yourself.

Basically, the chinese, through WTO, managed to utilize corona to show politicians, regardless of color, the enormous power of complete digital control of the population.

Our spineless and incompetent EU politicians thought it very erotic, and are now ramming it down our throats.

I don't really see a way to stop this apart from moving to south america or africa, to a small country with a weak government.