[hagbard_c]

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

They can try as often as they want and they only have to win once. We - as in those who don't want this Orwellian monster to be written into law - have to win all the time.

[ozlikethewizard]

Right but thats just the system working as intended? Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.

[miroljub]

> Right but thats just the system working as intended?

No, it is a one way street and thus creates an imbalance. EU regimes never push new legislation that gives more rights to their citizens, only try to limit them again and again.

> Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised.

Gay marriage is a good example. It got passed despite being unpopular. In many countries where it was pushed by force from above, from the EU to the national level, it is still unpopular.

> Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.

The issue with democracy as we have it in the EU is the imbalance of power and responsibility. Given the EU regime's decisions in the last few decades, I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.

[orwin]

I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist, and directives (accompanied by fines) is the main way for the EU to try to push laws on states (the other way if having a citizen go the the EUCJ against his own state, but that almost never ends in law changes).

> I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.

Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?

[miroljub]

> I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist

Not an EU directive. This was more a comment about various EU member states, which pushed it against the will of own citizens.

> Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?

Every directive. There was no single directive that had popular support from all member state populations. But the EU regime decides something and boxes it through the EU Commission and then uses the EuGH to force it upon all members.

Examples?

At least some EU regimes and people are against Russian sanctions and Ukraine support, they get bullied until they yield.

Illegal migration: there's no single EU country where the population supports it, yet they all got bullied to accept and support criminal migrants.

Electric cars, CO2, maybe not the majority but many country populations are against it, yet decisions get forced upon every single state.

Now, for every single topic you may say it's an exception, that it must have been like that, but in the end, if the wish of population is ignored on so many levels on so many topics, EU can be seen only as an illegitimate, corrupt regime trying to mess up everything. To the point, that even the Chinese regime feels less invasive, at least they care about the basic needs of the majority of their people.

[orwin]

> At least some EU regimes and people are against Russian sanctions and Ukraine support, they get bullied until they yield.

No? The only country where you can argue the government disagree with the population on the subject is Slovakia, but their government didn't get bullied. Hungary has kept its economic ties to Russia, and even lobbied the EU to remove a few oligarchs from the sanctions list. It is currently vetoing a EU aid package to Ukraine. I don't see it tbh.

If the country refuses to follow a directive, it can. Sometimes the country get fined for it, if a citizen if the country goes to court and the ECJ judge him correct, and often the fine is directed towards improving the issue (France fine on Brittany rivers water quality was directed towards the fund that pay for water treatment plants across Europe). Also the EU let the country the decision on how to implement the directive, and let _a lot_ of leeway (just look at Spain and Portugal energy market)

[hagbard_c]

For the downvoters, here it comes again:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47522709