[thrtythreeforty]

You're not mentally modeling the child correctly. The child has to have several things going to successfully practice using the bathroom:

1. Seeing a problem with having a dirty diaper

2. Recognizing (at least subconsciously) that on balance, using the bathroom will be easier than waiting to have your diaper changed

3. Being willing to react positively (not obstinately) to parents' reminders to use it

4. Being able to focus enough to, say, not play in the water, and old enough to practice all the steps.

And that's just to practice. Even if they're all of the above, they'll still take time.

Source: watching my now-3 year old overcome each stage listed, one at a time

[pinkmuffinere]

It's interesting to hear this perspective, especially helpful because you have a kid and I don't. I wonder if the child really has to recognize the problems, or just has to be conditioned that this-feeling-means-potty-time. To be fair, I don't know how that conditioning would happen without the child leading the process in some way (how would they associate bowel movements with the bathroom if not by willingly going to the bathroom?)

[thrtythreeforty]

The one that took us the longest was (3). He knew he needed to go, knew all the steps, and would pee in his pants just to spite his parents.

It's really eye opening and frustrating to see children be stubborn just for the sake of it. They're literally still developing and it's normal, but they are just too young to reason with. You have to create the environment where positive feedback happens, and... wait a very long time for them to work it out.

[pinkmuffinere]

tbh I think this is an underappreciated aspect to human behavior in general. Adults will do the same thing, sometimes even if they are corrected as politely as possible (my coworkers pee in their pants just to spite me too!) I think a lot of our systems don't explicitly account for that. We have meetings where a "correct" decision is made, and then we immediately expect everyone to get over their ego and accept the decision. In my experience, alignment is greatly improved if there can be a buffer of 5-7 days after the meeting where the topic receives no discussion. People come back in a less emotional state, and suddenly play nice. Maybe the time away helps forget the emotions, while the merits of the different options are still remembered? It also helps to remove ownership of ideas, or even reassign the "good ones" to any potentially-butt-hurt parties!! It's dishonest but it works. Finally, just because I'm writing this doesn't mean that _I_ am immune from these, I see the same behaviors in myself.

Sorry for the soap box, just seemed somewhat topical.