[bosch_mind]

I grew up in the US and lived there for 30 years, but now I live in Europe. Every single one of my friends in their 30's finds visiting the US absolutely terrifying (even those who have previously been). I have yet to meet a single friend in today's day that has expressed any interest in visiting.

[mherrmann]

I live in Europe and was in California in November. No issues.

[dboreham]

That's not the point. The number of white European people arrested and shackled by CBP/ICE is very small. But it's NOT ZERO! So at the margin plenty of potential tourists would prefer to go some other place where that chance is effectively zero.

[nitwit005]

But other people did have issues. Examining a single person's experience won't work for this sort of thing.

[Steve16384]

California confirmed 100% safe.

[fckgw]

What part did they find "terrifying"?

[s_dev]

ICE agents shooting US citizens, the mass shootings, the school shootings, the crime rate and fentanyl 'bend' posture that makes loads of poor people look like zombies, the aggressive police with guns who sometimes shoot people, burglaries that involve shootings. A lot of the problems in America seems to stem from guns and drugs but also policy.

Even something as simple as crossing the road is unnecessarily complicated in America. Some roads you seem to need a car to get from A to B. It just doesn't seem peaceful but very chaotic and intense.

[JumpCrisscross]

This sounds like someone who is on social media too much. The counterpart is an American in Paris convinced the banlieu are war zones.

The actual problems: we’ve made it impossible and insulting to get a tourist visa. And we’ve made pissing on our tourism partners our foreign policy.

[s_dev]

>The counterpart is an American in Paris convinced the banlieu are war zones.

This isn't a counterpart because nobody is trying to explain a significant drop in tourism numbers to Paris.

[_Tev]

> This isn't a counterpart because nobody is trying to explain a significant drop in tourism numbers to Paris.

Actually there isn't much to explain. Every single person I know that has been to Paris has been disappointed by it and complained how there are way too many people everywhere. Maybe there were just too many tourists in Paris?

[blurbleblurble]

Your head's in the sand. Where I live we have bounty hunters kidnapping people into unmarked vans. For six months or more now. Would visitors likely be safe? Sure, but not necessarily and I can't blame people for being cautious and there's so much unpredictability around it, even for those of us who are familiar.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I can't blame people for being cautious and there's so much unpredictability around it

I can. Again, this is like refusing to visit CDMX because you heard about gang violence or avoiding Sicily because there is crime. Those singular events aren’t false. But they don’t make up the majority of the context. Someone refusing to travel because of these low-probability events (note: because of fear of them, not out of protest, which is separate) is almost certainly behaving irrationally.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I can't blame people for being cautious and there's so much unpredictability around it

I can. Again, this is like refusing to visit CDMX because you heard about gang violence or avoiding Sicily because there is crime. Those singular events aren’t false. But they don’t make up the majority of the context. Someone refusing to travel because of these low-probability events (note: because of fear of them, not out of protest, which is separate) is almost certainly behaving irrationally.

Where your argument might have purchase is in America having previously been a good tourism destination for someone with such anxieties. But the truth of the matter is folks like that don’t tend to travel in the first place.

[blurbleblurble]

It really isn't like that though. On top of the rogue paramilitaries with arrest quotas for getting their menial bonuses, there are multiple cases now where _tourists_ have been detained for weeks or more, even those with valid visas, arbitrarily. Multiple governments are cautioning people around travel to the US, and people from many countries are being outright banned from entering. Look at this map: https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12631. Travel is already stressful enough without a rogue xenophobic force at the helm.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/21/karen-newton...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-travel-detentions-1.7489525

[BeetleB]

> But they don’t make up the majority of the context. Someone refusing to travel because of these low-probability events (note: because of fear of them, not out of protest, which is separate) is almost certainly behaving irrationally.

Statistically speaking, it's very safe for a white American to go to Dubai/Doha these days.

Would you fault them for not going?

[blurbleblurble]

Why should anyone who isn't a citizen feel safe travelling to the US right now when this is how the federal administration brazenly treats people who are citizens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSbRBCyG72g

[sgustard]

I have been to Rome and Taipei and Johannesburg, and crossing the road is terrifying lots of places.

[nitwit005]

Several Europeans have been detained at U.S. borders or during their stays, sometimes for weeks or months, even with valid documents.

Unsurprisingly, most people don't like hearing they might go to prison for no real reason.

[0xy]

A Senior Software Engineer in Stockholm can expect to make less money than a Graduate Software Engineer in the United States, and will pay more taxes.

It's simple, as a technologist, you live in Europe if retirement isn't important for you. Because you'll have almost nothing to show for it after 30 years in tech in Europe.

[coder68]

The tradeoff with many EU countries would be that they enjoy their leisure time a lot more and sooner than Americans. Americans make more and save more statistically, but they spend it on cars, houses, and medical care, and generally have way less free time. So I think it's a wash.

[g8oz]

>>you live in Europe if retirement isn't important for you.

Wouldn't the robust social safety net found in many European countries offer a dignified retirement for most people?

[gzread]

How does the cost of living difference work out? And quality of life?

[BeetleB]

Except lots of vacation, travel, etc.

[keldonjohnson]

In big tech the benefits are the same, except you save more in 10 years in WA than people in London save in 30.

[BeetleB]

> In big tech the benefits are the same,

Depends on which big tech. 15 days of vacation, BTW, doesn't even come close to comparing with much of Europe.

And I didn't mention London. London is crap. Probably all of UK is.

Most Europeans I know in certain countries travel a lot more than Americans at big tech.

[lurking_swe]

What if i told you some big tech jobs let you earn $300k+ a year, while take 4 weeks+ time off, and working 40hrs a week?

My first SWE job was at an older fortune 500 company where tech was not its main focus. You started with 14 days of vacation and slooooowly worked your way up to 4 weeks after like 20 years of service lol.

My point is, in the U.S. your experience varies WILDLY based on your employer. Not saying the U.S. is perfect or does things the right way. Just pointing out that you’re off base with your “15 days of vacation for big tech” comment. That’s a false generalization for big tech. Accurate for white collar jobs in general though!

[_Tev]

> while take 4 weeks+ time off

What if I told you, that even mentioning this shows how little free time people get in the US?

There is actually no SWE job (and I do mean actually 0 positions, I watch job postings way more than average person) in CZ that offers less than 5 weeks of paid vacation. When you look for companies that give actually nice benefits you can get 7-8 weeks, big chunk of it being sick days that you can claim whenever you want.

And that all is on top of MUCH longer parental leave, often shorter work week (lol @ 40h a week being noteworthy), much more leeway given to people with health issues and generally shorter commutes.

Not even mentioning difference in cost of living . . . The values are just different here.

[BeetleB]

> What if i told you some big tech jobs let you earn $300k+ a year, while take 4 weeks+ time off, and working 40hrs a week?

Acknowledged in my original comment. The key word is "some".

And my point is that people earning half that in Europe tend to go on more vacation travel than those earning the same amount in the US.

[gzread]

Then you'd be laughed at because apart from the salary, that's the legal minimum requirement in much of Europe. "Our company is so great, we do what other countries legally require all companies to do!" yeah okay buddy

[JohnnyMarcone]

What about everyone else in society? What happens if your skill set is no longer in demand and you become one of "everyone else"?

[coder68]

Even working in "tech" but not FAANG this is so true, 10 days is still the norm at many white collar businesses for your first year of employment, sometimes 15 days if they're generous.

[bitfilped]

Skill up.