Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by Mystery-Machine 108 days ago
Censorship is not a solution. Instead, companies, whose messages are misleading, could pay a fine for their misleading message. Otherwise, you end up in 1984...sorry, I mistyped "UK in 2026".
4 comments

No.

You avoid having companies, who can swallow the bill, making whatever claims they like without having to much to worry about other than a slap on the wrist - Their claims are already out. J&J, P&G, Unilever et al - you may trust them to do the right thing, i don't.

That’s a solved problem, though? Just adjust the fine based on the company’s revenue
It's only "solved" if the solution is actually happening.
> J&J, P&G, Unilever et al - you may trust them to do the right thing, i don't.

Would the UK government actually stop any of these advertisers? It seems more likely they would stop people critcising the UK government.

I'd be cool fining Meta 1% of global revenue for every fraudulent ad on their platform.
Ditto for Alphabet with scammy and malicious Youtube ads.
A fine doesn’t undo a lie that’s already made it around the world.

Although given Brexit I’d question how useful the ASA actually is. It seems Russian funded politicians were free to spew endless lies at the average citizen with no repercussions.

Then, make them pay for an ad apology where they retract their previous one, and which runs for at least the same time.
That's literally censorship though. If you get fined for saying a thing, you are being censored.
Quoting Wikipedia[1] quoting the US Supreme Court,

The thread running through all these cases is that prior restraints on speech and publication are the most serious and the least tolerable infringement on First Amendment rights. A criminal penalty or a judgment in a defamation case is subject to the whole panoply of protections afforded by deferring the impact of the judgment until all avenues of appellate review have been exhausted. Only after judgment has become final, correct or otherwise, does the law's sanction become fully operative.

A prior restraint, by contrast and by definition, has an immediate and irreversible sanction. If it can be said that a threat of criminal or civil sanctions after publication "chills" speech, prior restraint "freezes" it at least for the time.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_restraint#Judicial_view

Go to a theatre and start shouting "fire"

Free speech isn't about saying whatever you want without consequence.

And this is a bloody ad on the TV.

You can shout fire in a theater all you want.

What you can't do is shout it in a way that makes people believe there is legitimate danger AND your actions cause subsequent panic.

The crime isn't so much about the speech as it is about the damage that that speech causes.

It's a subtle distinction, but an important one.

And can we agree that there are lies that companies tell on adverts that can cause damage?

Carlsbergs tag line is still "probably the best beer in the world" despite it probably being not.

So the comparison works.

  > And can we agree that there are lies that companies tell on adverts that can cause damage?
Yes, and very often those companies get sued. I'll agree no often enough. But I'll also note that the outrage leading up to the lawsuit is far more visible than the results of that legal action. I'll also agree that that legal action is often too slow.

  > Carlsbergs tag line is still "probably the best beer in the world" despite it probably being not.
The lie has to be believable and cause damage. Was the unclear from my comment?

Even if they remove "probably" they could still get away with it because it isn't going to be believable and I doubt you could show damage. Just in the same way so many cafes have "Best coffee in X" and how frequently you see mugs like "Best Dad in the world." No one is getting sued over those because they aren't believable. I agree they're deceptive and in bad taste, but I think if you take some time to sit down and think about it you'll realize that to make statements like those illegal you're going to have a lot of unintended consequences.

I said you can't say whatever you want without consequence. Giving the example of shouting fire.

You responded pointing out it has to be believable, ie real harm done.

I brought it back full circle showing that adverts can 'lie' if it isn't believable.

I am pointing out you are reinforcing my original point, not detracting from it.