[whatwhaaaaat]

No the solution is hiring American workers and implementing strict on soil laws for pii just like other countries are doing (India for example).

I have learned a great deal and been enriched by my friendships with foreign born workers, but to act like h1b workers come “ready to perform software engineering duties” at any higher rate than new grad higher is funny.

[Suppafly]

>No the solution is hiring American workers

This, I don't understand how we have tons of un- and underemployed American workers and yet somehow businesses have convinced the government that they need to import workers.

[silisili]

The answer isn't one a lot of people are willing to talk about, but personally, I don't care.

The problem isn't "businesses", it's other Indians. They take entire tech orgs over, then only hire each other. They make up bizarre reasons why US workers won't fit while spamming H1B applications.

Before you grab your pitchforks, or try to dox me for racism one, please understand it's not all Indian people, obviously. There are so many in the US, and the majority are good people. But there's an extremely clear pattern that's emerged that you'd have to be blind not to see.

[bigfatkitten]

The pattern I’ve seen emerge is that the only successful candidates just happen to be of the same ethnolinguistic background as the hiring manager. Merely being Indian is not enough.

[gymbeaux]

I suspect this has happened to me at least once. I was a shoe-in, checked all of the boxes, recruiter was saying they really wanted me, and then for the final interview they brought in a mid level guy who asked me questions unrelated to the role (purely a Data Engineer role but he was asking me about the intricacies of ML models). All interviewers were Indian. I would wager they ended up hiring another Indian guy for the role. I would imagine this happens to people of color all the time so I don't "mind" in that sense. The bigger issue to me is U.S. citizens unemployed because roles are filled by H-1B people (which is difficult to prove, but the evidence seems to indicate).

[hshdhdhj4444]

So just looking at your story, you’re saying all your interviewers were Indian, and all of them but 1 mid level guy really wanted you.

And that to you is evidence that they only wanted to hire Indians?

Despite the fact that everyone but this 1 mid level guy clearly wanted to hire a non Indian?

[gymbeaux]

We'll never know what actually happened, but I suspect they had to choose between me and an Indian guy and by throwing me ridiculous questions in the final interview, they had evidence to whoever (their boss, HR, me, the recruiter representing me) that they passed on me because I didn't know enough about a subject area and therefore I wasn't a good fit for the role. I can't capture the full interview experience in a Hacker News comment but I realize the information presented isn't a dead-giveaway case of racism.

I am well aware that it could've just been that A) their requirements for the role changed mid-interview process, B) they didn't like my personality or I came off as an asshole, C) the mid level guy didn't want me as their "superior" for a non-racial reason or D) Other. But I think it's dangerous to just write off any suspected racism and blame something like personality or soft-skills. Racism is disproportionately detrimental to people of color, but it's still wrong when it's directed towards a white person.

[ta9000]

That’s still discrimination.

[bigfatkitten]

I’m not sure how my post could be taken to suggest otherwise.

[phonon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5fXrPMGM5E From a former senior employee at American Express.

[thisislife2]

> They take entire tech orgs over, then only hire each other.

No. It is stupid politics to blame Indians or other Asians for this when they are just following company policy to hire cheaper labour. Like it or not, H1B Asians (in IT) are hired because they can be exploited - they work cheaper and longer hours than their American counterpart ( US companies save nearly $100,000 per H-1B hire as workers earn 16% less: Here’s why demand stays high - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/us-compan... ). Blaming immigrant Asians for this kind of exploitative politics that exists because American businesses lobby for it is irrational. (Also, do not forget that America is a country of immigrants. The H1Bs also act as a "vetted" immigrant pool from which American citizenship can be given). By demanding $100,000 to hire an H1B, the Trump administration has now tweaked this policy to make it costlier for businesses to hire them (and force them to seriously consider AI). But immigrant workers are still cheaper and can be made to work longer hours.

[drecked]

You’re right.

The only reason you see Indians is because Indians knly hire Indians. It can’t be anything else.

Completely unrelated, have you walked into a non nuclear/biomedical engineering engineering department in any IS college in the past 2 decades? I’m guessing those are also filled with Indians because their managers are insisting that only Indians can study engineering.

[gymbeaux]

Actually it can and almost certainly is multiple things - not just that Indians prefer to work with other Indians (by the way this phenomenon isn't exclusive to Indians).

[sumedh]

Its the same in Australia.

Australian universities make billions and lobby the government to import students from developing countries, the agents of these universities tell the students that getting jobs and a permanent resident visa is easy, just pay the huge fees and you will get the chance to live your dreams in a developed country.

[hshdhdhj4444]

Why were those underemployed and unemployed people getting hired as tech workers for the past 2 decades when it’s one of the highest paying jobs in the country already?

Is our discipline so trivially easy that the only barrier to being hired is choosing to do so?

[thisislife2]

You missed the obvious - foreign workers can be exploited by paying them less. Are there Americans with an engineering degrees that are also willing to work for 10+ hours daily, at $150,000 annually, for a job that usually pays $200,000 to $300,000? That is all the H1B (in IT at least) is about - cheap labour, and a potential immigrant pool. Blaming Indians or other Asians for this (like some others do here) is just stupid politics. "Indians hire Indians" is just Indians following company policy to hire cheaper labour.

[raw_anon_1111]

This is so much bubble thinking. The average senior developer in America barely make $150K. Most will never see $200K inflation adjusted in their entire career. Hell the way comp has stagnated for software engineers in tier 2 cities - where most work at banks, insurance companies, “the enterprise” - may never see $200K nominally. You can even look and see what most YC companies pay their “founding engineers”.

Yes I know what BigTech an adjacent makes. Been there done that.

[thisislife2]

Yes, these are probably inflated. I should have clarified these are example figures. Note though the $150k I quoted is a factual figure - there are other jobs in IT besides developer for which H1Bs are hired too. For example, I had system administration or database administration in mind and the $150k I cited is what some H1Bs I know in this field earn in NY today, in telecom or finance. Interestingly, when one of my friend on H1B in Texas became a US citizen, he immediately got an offer with a $50k pay hike from another firm. Another thing to keep in mind is that most H1Bs in IT are contract workers. The outsourcing firm may charge $150K for their work, but the actual salary to the worker will be way less. So there is indeed often a big pay gap when you go through the actual convoluted way this system works.

[ecshafer]

People always make the huge salary argument. But youre totally right. Your average senior engineer in US is making $130k. These $300k salaries are relatively rare. But people hire H1B to pay them $90k and save on benefits and salary.

[jen20]

The monetary saving is almost never the reason - the inability to push back on whatever crazy half-assed, maybe illegal horse shit that an incompetent manager wants to be done without blowing up their entire lives is the reason they are hired.

[throwaway2056]

True. But the common man on the street wants things to be cheap. This is not sustainable unless on imports cheap h1b (or other overworked foreigners).

Edit: This is not meant to support h1b.

Ideal case - people that are not on H1B and work in these companies - contact your CEO/managers. People don't do that. Instead are happy to argue (or downvote) here.

[raw_anon_1111]

How are you going to make a law telling companies with offices and that do business internationally that they must hire Americans?

As far as PII, any reasonable company only lets a select few developers see production data anyway. You just don’t let non Americans go near production if you work in an industry where that is necessary

[ulfw]

And American software shouldn't be bought by foreign entities/customers anymore. Because why would we? Just make it only by Americans and sell it only to Americans and see how that goes.

[whatwhaaaaat]

Why can India make on soil law but not the US?

Should we boycott anything from India because of the on soil laws?